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The 'Bombs to Butterflies' Interviews
Interviewee: Tim Bloodworth
Interviewees: Norman and Audrey Ecob
Date of Interview: 06.02.02
When did you live on the site?
I first started to live on The Avenue when I was a baby. Obviously I don't remember moving up there because we moved from Box 10 which is where Leys Court now is. I lived there until I was about 16 lived on The Avenue until I was about 16 which made it about 1968 when we moved down to Fields Avenue next to Barleylands.
Can I just interrupt you there and ask about Box 10. Was that anything to do with the..?
Well its to do Box 10 is where Leys Court is now its actually on Leys Road is now and that's where Mum and Dad first lived because Dad worked on the factory during the war. He used to bring in German armaments and take them to pieces to see what the metal was like and if it was any better or worse than the metal that we were using for our armaments and that really carried on for my dad when the war ended when he went to work at the ROF as an examiner for armaments.
Yes but this particular Box 10, was that part of the Ministry?
Originally before Barleylands, Fields Avenue was built, there was a gate across Sheepfold Lane and there was no entry allowed that way and that was part of the War Department, well MOD where people lived and I don't know if it was part of where they worked, I think it was mainly where they lived. There were air raid shelters on there.
Married couples?
Well yes my Mum and Dad were married, they were married in 1944. I'm not quite sure when they moved into Ruddington.
Were the premises on The Avenue there at the same time?
That I don't know, but looking at the plan of The Avenue you can see where the flats were. The flats were actually called Victory House and I can't imagine those being built any other time except during the war or just after the war. I don't know why they were built or who they were really built for. I presume it was for the people that worked on the Ministry of Defence or on the Depot as it now. Box 10 was just an area, like many of the areas that were on the factory or Ministry of Defence, or whatever you want to call it, they had different box numbers. People could be easily referred to them.
Were these living quarters for the workers?
Well I think it was just known as an area. Box 10 was half a dozen flats, on the same side as the flats on The Avenue but I wasn't there at the time, so I can't really tell you. But Box 10 was more into the village and it was only 5 or10 minutes walk from the centre of the village. Whereas The Avenue was a good 20 minutes walk. They were both residential but on Box10 there were only half a dozen flats, places, living quarters, whereas on The Avenue there were 17 bungalows and 12 flats. Box10 was nothing to do with where the Country Park is now, it was completely separate.
But it would be contained within that area I presume. Because the entrance to it would have been towards The Green, wouldn't it?
Well, yes it was. There were gates, where you actually walk onto The Green from Leys Road now, where Box 10 was, there were gates across where that wall is so it was self contained. Like this was self-contained, like The Avenue was self-contained, but everything that we had like all electricity, water and telephones at one time had to go through the factory, the War Department.
We'll probably pick that up a bit later on in the questions actually. So you've already answered the question of how many houses there were.
Well yes, looking at this plan it brings back some of the people I already told you about. There was 17 bungalows and 10 flats and it was quite isolated really, very nice in summer but very, very cold in winter because we hadn't got any central heating.
What were they made of?
Well the bungalows were brick but the flats were like breeze blocks, but I'm not sure because the flats were coated in artex, it was a poor construction. Both the flats and the bungalows complained of damp walls and that is what was the downfall of The Avenue because when the factory was closing they discovered that to pipe everything in to The Avenue was going to be so expensive and to then do up the properties so that they were inhabitable was going to be very expensive as well and I think that was The Avenue' downfall, just the expense of it all. In the bungalows the windows of both types of property were all wood with like casement windows, Georgian casement windows with very small panes and in the winter it was so cold that when you woke up in the morning there was frost on the inside of the windows and we just took it as natural that you knew that you were going to be cold until you got dressed. As I suppose many of the older generation, you didn't think that there would anything like central heating. But in the summer it was really a beautiful place to be. You can see from the plan that we had space at the top which we called the top field and at the bottom we had another space, a smaller space which we called the bottom field. The Ministry I believe owned all the land but rented the fields out to various farmers. When we were very young we used to play cowboys and indians, and wars and that kind of thing to keep us entertained because at times it was a lot of youngsters, whether it be in the bungalows or in the flats and at others there was four or five and it wasn't a case of having to go into the village for your entertainment, there was no such thing. You were only at first aIlowed in the club until a certain time and then you had to go and go home.
What sort of time?
I think it was about 9.30 - 10 o'clock at first. That was relaxed and relaxed because the club became quite popular not only with the people on the site, but people used to come in from all over, Clifton, Bradmore, Bunny and whatever. And there were quite a few...
What, just casual?
Well you had to be a member or be introduced to the club.
But not working on the site?
No I think it was felt to make it better, to make more money for the club, it was better to throw the doors open wider. I was under 16 so I didn't take any interest in the running of the club. My dad was once the chairman of it towards the end and there was quite a bit of bother as The Avenue closed down and was going to be demolished they didn't know what to do with the chairs, tables and there was a lot of argument what should happen to it. Give it away or selling it for money and distributing it among the members or whatever. There was a few people who lived on The Avenue who were not exactly enthralled with it especially on a Friday or Saturday night. They didn’t want people banging car doors late at night waking the kiddies up.
Can we go back to the actual flats and the gardens at the front or the back?
What, the gardens on the flats.
Yes did they have gardens, not the flats the houses?
You can see the front gardens weren't marked.
Are those the smaller ones on the map?
They were all open, all the gardens at the front were open plan but at the back they were hedged in. As far as I can remember all the gardens were hedged in.
They were the big rectangular ones at the back of the houses.
Yes, that’s right. The fronts were open. In the flats there were probably small gardens in the front of the front doors of the flats. The flats were all on one level. Each flat had its own garden like these here. The smaller ones at the side, they were all fenced off so each flat had a garden as well as a bit of a garden at the side and a bit of turf at the side.
A little bit further off, running parallel with the lane just to the right of it?
There were some at the back. I think there were some gardens at the side. I’m not sure.
So the open land around there by the club and by the flats would be gardens, but did you say this particular part round the club itself was developed into lawns?
In front of the club where the club to the north-east of the club there was a patch of grass. The club itself was surrounded on the north-east, north-west sides by a grass bank and more or less to the south-west side by a grass bank but this was, I think, must have been done when they dug the footings out, because round the club itself was a ditch and the piece of ground that was to the north-east of the club was developed into a car park so that people could there, and not cause so much to the residents
Because it was a problem?
As far as I can remember there was quite a bit of upheaval for the residents although most of the residents were members and regular members at that. Some of the people just didn't take to it.
Were the premises outside the main security fence?
Yes you can see here, the main security fence ran along there, which is to the west of the club on the map. That is a road which went all the way round the security fence so that the firemen cum security people could get from one place to another and get right up to the fence.
What does that say there, street four?
Could be. These were all railway lines. If you get an ordinance survey map you could see where the railway went all round the site, not on The Avenue but round the site. That went out to where the Heritage Centre is now.
So on this particular map here, that would be on the other side of the security fence?
Yes. The Avenue was completely separate from any of the MOD roads but it wasn't separate in that we had to get all the water, electricity, there was no gas, but when we did have a telephone exchange was in the Depot itself.
Were they on the phone?
At times we were on the phone, but that wasn't on a regular basis. You rent a BT phone line now, it was nothing like that. I don't know who decided when the telephones were on and when they were off. I know that at times we did have a phone and that at other times we didn’t. It wasn’t a very secure line. It was through an exchange on the site. The Avenue did depend on the Depot itself. Quite how these reservoirs came into it I'm not sure.
They're the two square blocks, one at the north and one at the eastern part of the buildings?
Yes.
What were the reservoirs for?
That I don't know. They were very big containers built into the ground with like corrugated roofs and two little windows, one at either end.
For fire fighting?
Well they could be but I'm not sure. I know that Michael Hamilton fell into one once. He fell through the roof. But that's about all I do know about the reservoirs. I know that what is now the garden of the big house, the Commandants House, there was like a wood at the bottom of his garden. In November it is or was a wonderful place to get blue buttons. Absolutely wonderful place to get them. Also you used to be able to what is now the walk way from the Loughborough Road in what is now the Country Park at the top end of Loughborough Road that used to be good for blue buttons.
That's The Avenue field near the pond.
We used to come for blue buttons.
Can we go back to the flats and the houses, was there a waiting list at all?
No I don't think there was. What happened was that if there was someone coming to work at a government establishment this side of Nottingham, the ROF, Ruddington MOD, or Chilwell and there was space then they would be offered a place here or offered a place by the council. But I don't think there was a waiting list they were just allocated as and when.
Whether or not they were for key workers?
No. At No 1 there used to be a bloke called Skevington lived there and after that there was a bloke called Haughton and they were to do with the Ruddington MOD. I know Ted Haughton was the Deputy Fire Chief or Security Officer on the MOD. Then at No 2 there was Mr and Mrs Kenniford and he was a scientist and he was working for the MOD during the war and I think he then went to the ROF. No 3 can't remember his name. No 4, most of the houses like No 1 and No 2 were occupied by the same family for a number of years. Some of the places like No 16 probably had 2 or 3 families in the same period. I know No 17 we called him Mac, I think it was William McDade with his son John and wife Hilda and they lived there for some years. Next door to them was exchanged quite a few times. Then there was the Collinses at No 15 who lived there for absolutely years. They lived there probably as long as we did. Then there was the Sells at 14, then Mr and Mrs Davies, Mr Davies used to work at the ROF until he retired.
After working on the site?
Not sure about that, don't think he ever did work on the site.
That's the fellow that came through the back with his car?
That's right that was No 13, Davies. Then there was Mr and Mrs Fish who used to live next door to Mr and Mrs Davies and then the Haines' for many years No 11 . And then there was at No 10 the Kenyons can't remember his name. That's the end of the block. That top house was quite regularly used.
That's the top house nearest the Commandants House.
Then there was Mr and Mrs Wilson, Mike and Hilda Wilson.
Coming back down now.
Yes. Can't remember that one or those, or that one. That was the Barringtons, I think. Some of the houses were regularly vacated, people moving on.
Were they demolished in 1968?
No, we moved out in ’68, they were demolished in about 1970. I wish that I had taken more photographs now of the flats.
Going back to the interiors, the bedroom there had quite thick walls. So it was also an air raid shelter.
Can't tell you much about the flats at the bottom because I believe the flats were different. But the bungalows were all three bedroomed and all but No 1 The Avenue were semi-detached. No 1 was detached. But they were all the same material and the interiors were three bedrooms, with a living room at the front, kitchen, dining room at the back and a bathroom near to the back door. But the smallest of the bedrooms was at the front and that was the air raid shelter which had very thick walls and very small windows with blast shutters over them. Don't know that they were ever used, don't think a bomb dropped on the site. I suppose the Germans did know about it.
Don't think they did actually. Lets' go on to the social club. Where was it on the map. You have very kindly provided a map which is marked and its the biggest blank spot amongst the flats.
I think originally it was quite a poor place because it was mainly meant for the people on The Avenue itself and it was just somewhere to gather and have a drink. But when it became more and more popular and more money came through the door, it was a case of they had to improve it. Originally there were two main rooms with the bar from one of the sides and the cellar behind the bar. The cellar itself wasn't dug out or underground it was just a space behind the bar and it was had door at the back of the cellar so that you could get all the beer and whatever in there. The other side of the two main rooms the committee room, which was used when TV first came out, it was used to entertain the children. There was a big black and white TV put in there so that the parents could have a few minutes to themselves. But it was always used as a committee room. But the two large rooms were actually separated with a wall between them. Just at the side of the cellar. Beside the bar there was a little off room no door at the front but just enough room to get a chair, quite a wide chair, and between this were many people called the bar and the snug was a little hatch way and Mrs Davies one of my neighbours used to sit in the snug on a Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights and used to have quite a few drinks. She was a real personality. She often used to play the piano, they had one at the club, and so did her husband Charles. But she was quite a personality. As were a lot of people I remember fondly because in their own way although some were good and some were bad, they had great personality
Was she the one who played classical music?
Yes, on a summers evening it was wonderful just to sit in the garden and listen to her playing the piano, or Charles playing the piano. Something that you would never ever forget. You would sit there at 9 of 10 at night while they ware playing the piano. They often used to argue but that was just to make sure they were still alive because they were quite an old couple. The people that went to the club, they were all personalities in their own right. Originally the club was meant for the people on The Avenue itself.
Did you say there was a snooker table there?
Yes. I don't know how soon the snooker table came in the piece of room nearest the bar it was a full size table. It was quite a big place. The floor was pitchmastic stuff, the red stuff and the other large room was used for dancing. Well then they knocked down the wall between the two rooms and it became one large room and it became friendlier in that it spread out and do much more.
Did you say there were darts?
Yes. Anything that anyone wanted. If anyone was prepared to set up a league or anyone interested enough they would set it up and sort something out.
Was that down to the committee?
Yes. There was a lot of people that had better ideas but never wanted to be on the committee at various times did their best. They used to run trips to the coast. One particular day we all got on this old bus to Scarborough or Bridlington but the buses weren't like what they are now, in fact the buses had big panes of window at the bottom of the window and then sliding windows at the top. It was a good job really because Michael Halton wanted to go the toilet and they wouldn't stop the bus, so on the way back he did his business in the sandcastle bucket and then there was nowhere to put it so they slung it out of the window. But unfortunately they were passing some cyclists and managed to get it on the top of their head. He was very chuffed. I think he will probably remember that for a long time. This is what I mean by personalities. There were so many of them.
Was there a membership fee to go into the club?
I've no idea. Children didn't pay a membership fee I was only 16 when I left so I really wasn't on to that sort of thing. But I believe it was probably a nominal amount. two bob a year or something. I really don't know.
What about the committee, were they elected or?
Oh yes, the committee were elected I think it was once a year and there were a lot of people wanting to do it in some years it was run better than others but mainly it was run very well, because it did make, from what I said before I was only a young lad but everything as far as I could gather people wanted was talked about till the best that they could do.
Was there any paid staff at all, a barman or steward?
Well, from what I can understand there were two main people behind the bar. There was Alec Wilson who lived at No 10 The Avenue and Mac who lived at No 17. Alec Wilson, he was a character, never had a cigarette out of his mouth. But he was also a very good piano player. McDade or Mac he took over I think they did it together for a while and McDade took over for some time when I was. On a Friday and Saturday night people, including my mum and dad used to help behind the bar and there were other people that used to help. It wasn’t a one man band it was a sort of…
A committee?
Yes it was. As far as I know no one was expected to do it on their own, it was their responsiblity - it was a club.
Did people used to sign in?
Members didn't, but the guests did
. . . especially in the late 60's before it closed there was a lot of problems
of what to do with the assets of the club and then it did finally close because
some people wanted the tables, chairs, stools, whatever to be sold and given
to charity and some people wanted it to be given to the members and there
was quite a bit of argy-bargy. In the end it closed as did the site at Ruddington
and The Avenue because it depended on everything from the Depot it couldn’t
exist without it because it cost so much to sort out they found it uneconomical.
Did you know a bit about the people that worked on the site?
Dad he worked at Cottons at Loughborough and then on the engineering side and came to Ruddington at the beginning of the war to do the experimentation on the German bombs that were brought through the gates along with Kenniford and quite a few others after the war we, I’m not sure where Mum and Dad lived there during the war I suspect it was down Box 10 and then I don't know when they actually moved to The Avenue. My earliest memory of The Avenue is walking down from The Avenue down to Loughborough Road where the main gates of the Depot.
Where Mere Way is now?
Yes and I must have been 2 or 3 at the time and with Mum pushing the pushchair and with Blossom Sansom and Barbara Sansom walking beside. So I believe I was taken to The Avenue about 6 months after I was born which would make it either December or January 53. I believe before that we lived at Box 10.
So whilst you were in Box 10 your parents were working, your dad was at Chilwell?
Well my dad worked at the.. While we were at Box 10 he worked at the factory or the Depot in Ruddington and then I am not sure what year he moved to the ROF in Nottingham itself. He was an armaments inspector there. Mum didn't work until I was at least 10 I think and then she got a job cleaning in Bunny and then there was a job that became vacant. She didn't work until I was going to school at 5 and then a job became vacant form the age of 5 to 10 she was working in Bunny cleaning, then when I was 10 or early teens there was a job vacant on the Depot so she went what they call 'ffeing' which was free fall explosives. Meant that all the boxes that formally held the ammunition were brought back and they had to, mum and people with her had to inspect the boxes to make sure there were no live rounds in them. But then she went into the office.
Did they have chemicals?
From what I can understand they had all sorts of things on the Depot from rubber bullets to tear-gas, tanks, half-tracks, armoured cars, and Sarason armoured cars.
This would be way after the war though?
Yes they used to have a sale on the Depot about every three months. They used to sell the vehicles. The vehicles were brought in over the two months and in the third month they had a sale. Each vehicle brought in was given a lot number and people from all over used to come and buy these ex-army vehicles. But when the sale was on the Perimeter Road was absolutely filled with vehicles because when they bought the vehicle they used to have to get it off site more or less immediately, within the day. What used to happen was it for instance let's say a vehicle was coming in from Old Dalby, the vehicle was given enough fuel to get it from Old Dalby to Ruddington no more, no less, but most vehicles had that little bit extra just to make sure that the driver if he didn't know where he was going could actually get there. There was a bloke who used to work on the Depot and used to syphon the petrol off to run his own car and that again is part of the charm of the place. I suppose really there was quite a bit of this pilfering going on. You can imagine things like that, that people can get away with it. When I was coming in from school I used to always go past the main gate of the Depot which was on Loughborough Road where Mere Way is now and I always used to stop and talk to the security people there, Cyril Smith, Lawson and various other people and it was quite entertaining.
Did they wear uniform?
It was life a cross between a firemans uniform, it was a dark blue uniform with white shirt and black tie.
Were they armed at all?
I don't think they would have known what to do with a gun. There was a time I don't know whether we were living at The Avenue or whether we had moved to Fields Avenue but there was a time when somebody broke in through the Perimeter fence round the perimeter and went into one of the bunkers to this. I don't think they knew who it was and to this day I don't think they know what was taken. I'm not quite sure when that was. I expect you've had this when interviewing other people everything seems to go together in such a melee you can't put your finger on when it happened. We used to have some really good times up there. Until 1960 there was no such thing as TV there were probably 2 or 3 familes in The Avenue had a TV and the rest made the most of at the time that we had.
Was there another club at the site?
No
I'd heard there was another club nearer The Green.
What I think happened was that The Avenue was closing down and they realised that most of the people on The Avenue were going to Barleylands, that was being developed. Barleylands and Leys Road was bought from the ministry to be built on. The council and one of the proposals that the club and its assets were moved to The Green. You know where the Methodist Church used to be near your house and you turn left there that big place on the left with archway that used to have white Rolls Royces on The Green it was proposed that that was going to be taken the club but there was certainly no other club near to The Avenue, definitely not. Because there wasn't premises for it. And I think the residents wouldn't have wanted it, because of the extra noise.
Thanks very much Tim. That concludes the interview.
Interviews > Interview with Tim Bloodworth