HomeThe StoryInterviewsPhotographsResources
The 'Bombs to Butterflies' Interviews
Interviewee: George Holland
Interviewees: Wes Scarrott and Val Clark
Date of Interview: 05.02.02
How come you went to work there?
Just thinking aloud. It would be September 1943. Why did I first go there? When I first left school at sixteen and a half at the West Bridgford Grammar School as it was in those days. I was there about fifteen months there before I joined the Navy at seventeen and three quarters, I was one of the good lads. People like me did.
We’ll make a separate interview about that later on. What was your job?
I was Office Boy come Accounts Boy. There was two of us started by the name of Allan Stainton he lived at Gotham. We started at the same time. We were Office Boys alternate weeks and the other week we were not Office Boy we were running round the site and in the office mainly keeping records of the 500-lb. Bombs etc. I was in the Accounts Office actually.
You had to keep account of the type of bombs that went through the depot?
We were keeping records of the bombs as they came through.
Were they bombs or shells.
Shells mainly.
Were they any particular calibre?
500-lb. mainly.
They were bombs mainly then?
Yes, bombs. That was the main job so on the alternate week we used to take the papers round to the bungalows. We used to go out in the morning and two or three times a day . The daily papers that were delivered to our office we used to take them all round. Right down to the Club as it was in those days. The Victory Club as it was called in those days. So we used to run round all day, it would take us about an hour and a half in all weathers on alternate weeks.
When you went round the site did you have to pass through different gates for security?
Only the particular site which was in the site there. The bungalows on the site were on the outside in those days. We used to go into the gate there which was that particular spot there which was the Security Office there and whistle round there to the Main Entrance just to the left hand side there. (George is pointing to the Main Entrance). To the left hand side we used to follow the road there. Who was security? Johnny Peel, you remember Johnny he was Security.
You mean the John that is around today not the other one?
John Peel who used to play cricket with us. He was also on Security but he might have been a bit later actually he was in the forces when I was there.
He was my age.
I think he went in the forces at the time I was there but he came out he was in insurance.
Did you have to have a pass of any sort?
Not really I think we were pretty well known at the time.
Did you have to have a pass to get in?
No they knew you over a period of time anyway.
You did not have to change into protective clothing or anything?
No, because we were not allowed anywhere near what was I think called Gate C. There was A/B’s that was where they would get all the yellow on their hair.
The Gates were called A, B and C
Yes
But these were gates within a compound?
Yes. We used to go to a Gate B and then C and ditch our mail there or whatever we got. Someone used to come up in padded feet and then take it from us.
So you did not actually go in?
I think I did go in on one occasion but none of us were allowed in there.
Can you remember what your wages were?
(Laugh) No but I think about a couple of quid I should think. I can’t quite remember. A Manager who was in charge in those days was a man named Critchlow. His Deputy was a Mr. Baldwin.
Were they local?
Here again to me this was all relevant to the Co-op. As I remember this they were the managing agents for the Ministry or the supply for whatever it was. Mr. Smith, Mr. Baldwin. The Cashier was a Mr. Hancock, the Accountant was Mr. Critchlow who was a local bloke who used to work at the Co-op. He was the Secretary of the Ruddington Co-op in those days. You remember Mr. Critchlow?
No.
He used to live next door but one to me. I lived at 36 Church Street, he lived at 32 Church Street, Critchlow.
That’s interesting I had very little to do with the Co-op.
Did you.
Being as my Dad was a grocer. But that’s another tale.
Critchlow he had glasses on I don’t suppose he would get accepted for the forces.
Probably not. There was a big connection with the Co-op.
They were agents I am sure they were. There was a Mr. Buxton who was also in our office. He was more or less in charge of the stock and general consumable stocks. He was in the army but I think he got shot in the eye.
Are these Buxtons down Clifton Lane.
No. No relation whatsoever. I think again he was something to do with the Co-op side because the Buyer was a Mr. Lynes, I gather they all came from the Co-op on the Manchester side as I think they were the Managing Agents in those days. I am sure they were all Co-op people.
So they supplied all the catering supplies for the site?
Yes, that is the impression I got. Mr. Critchlow was the only local man the rest were from elsewhere. I think from the Manchester area where the head office was. C Believe they were they all seemed to be Co-op minded people in those days.
To get back to the office, were there only two of you in the office?
No, no, Critchlow was the leader the Accountant, he was the Secretary for the Ruddington Co-op.
Who else was there in the office then?
Mentioned a man named Buxton, in the Accounts Office there were two girls in it one came from Leicester I can’t remember she came on the train every day quite a nice girl and you remember Les Beaver’s wife she also worked there for a length of time and Harry Beacroft’s wife. She ring a bell to you?
Yes.
She worked there. Besides Allan Stainton and myself . I’ll tell you another lad that came in some time his name was Popkiss. In those days he was the Chief Constable of Nottingham he lived at the Four Mile House his son I don’t know whether he married Clarice or not because he was quite an elderly chap, but his son would be a couple of years younger than us and for some reason he got involved I think he came in as well. I can’t remember his christian name now.
Did you keep all these records in huge leather bound ledgers.
Not particularly we had to consign the RAF warrants for outside Padgate outside Warrington. We used to send shells.
Can you recall any emergencies or anything in your day. There were a few bombs dropped on the perimeter.
Oh if you are going back prior to that. Prior to the perimeter being built for a couple of days there were bombs dropped on there. This would be 1939 wouldn’t it?
I can remember the Bomb Disposal coming round one afternoon to tell us to open all our windows as they were going to explode them.
I certainly remember we used to go round on our bikes. The perimeter fence was hardly built in those days. After the bombs they started erecting the fence that would be about September time 1939 that’s when the war started anyway.
Any particular incidents that you can recall humorous or otherwise?
Around that way? No No. I can remember we used to go to Clifton Pastures it has nothing to do with that really but they used to do this practise bombing with a fairy battle ……. Dropping smoke bombs and go and pinch a few and get away quick. I remember that part of it.
Did you have any pre-war memories. Village children tended to stick to their own areas when they were playing. If they lived in that area they would go over in that direction. We always went up to Flawford Churchyard and Ninestiles.
We used to have fights. There was the Marlers, The Leysersand the Middle People. Jack Greenfield was one of the blokes who was down there I remember. In those days I was a Middle lad.
There were gang fights but nothing serious though.
Not like it is today though but then it was quite serious we used to hit each other with sticks and things.
The Methodists had the odd Sunday School Party up there on the way to Bradmore on the footpath to Bradmore it might have been 1939 just prior to the war. Arrange the odd trip to Mablethorpe or Skegness and decided to have one across there.
Probably the only one I remember was at Sellars we used to have parties there in our Sports Day event. At the back of Sellars. The old man Sellars in those days were very generous to the village.
To go back to the office George what other departments were there apart from yours?
The Accounts we were right at the top end of the Loughborough Road side and it was quite a long corridor honestly, I think the next one was the Cashiers Office where we used to go every Friday morning if we was in the office our self we would have to go and put the money up. The money coming in “that’s your section”, “that’s your section” all the coins, it was quite interesting actually. All the pound notes, coins. That was Hancock’s department but we used to go and help him because he only had one girl. Going down there there was some in between but I remember the Main Entrance, we used to turn right and the first one used to be Mr. Smith’s office and next to him was a lady named Mrs. Grocock, she was a doled up doll, Baldwin was next one to him, he was the Deputy and going right the way down the bottom end was the A.I.D. the Aeronautical Inspection Department. Attached to him was Flight Lieutenant Parker his Secretary was a Mrs. Pilgrim and Pam’s (wife of George) sister worked there Ivy she was attached to the A.I.D. I think there thing was they used to inspect the bombs to make sure they were correct when they came in I suppose I didn’t get too involved in that. They were right at the other end of the corridor . There was a Wages Office on the right as an off shoot. Just going to the right side of us were a Mr. Lynes who was a Director and he looked after all consumables items.
Were these office situated in the huts situated beyond the playing fields?
Yes that’s right running parallel. If you go in the Main Entrance you used to turn right round the island and I can’t remember what these are here. It’s a bit different to my recollection of that.
That’s where the wooden huts used to be.
Right, right, all the way down there. Now to me that may be a bit different I may be wrong on that.
(Interviewees are showing George the other site maps to see
if he can identify anything better on these).
How many people do you reckon worked in the office area?
Oh I don’t know I would guess fifty plus somewhere in that area. It was quite a long corridor.
The whole way down Jubilee Field as I remember it there was a hedge.
That’s not familiar to me that is not round this area is it?
That’s a semi-circle. I think that is showing the entrance from the Green.
10F Canteen was on there you remember that do you?
I remember a Canteen there after the war where the WI used to put there tram lines on.
If you went in the Main Gate from the Green you did not have to have a pass for that one. We used to go dancing there in those days it used to be called 10F every building had its particular number like that. The canteen was 10F every building was like that. We used to have dances at the weekend on Saturdays.
And that was situated off the Green end?
Off the Green where on the left hand side where the Mother in Law lives (Leys Court).
Leys Court?
Yes, Leys Court. Roughly on that spot I would say. Afterwards it was a hostel and they used to have lots of Latvians when I worked at British Gypsum and which is going back in the early 1950s there was one or two working down the mines there one named Baciancus? And the other one lived in a caravan on the site and they lived there in the hostel on the site. There was a lot of Irishmen up there as well. I remember one of the Sadlers telling me these Irishmen used to get boozed up at the weekend and I remember a Sergeant Sheffield in those days he was very keen on boxing and he went across there one day ll p.m. or 11.30 p.m. and they were shouting and bawling like and was reputed to have said that “on your way lads quietly” and they said “who the bloody hell are you talking to” and he took off his shoe and gave them a belting like and it was reputed that said the next day “he had an half got some punch” and that is what should happen today. Displine that is what should happen today. So there were Irish and Latvians.
So that was a hostel before it became the Depot Site then?
Yes after the war. This would be in the 1950s. – 1952 about that era.
Can you remember when the Depot was being built.
The hostel, Taylor Woodrows, I don’t remember the biggest scaffolding in Great Britain that was. Birt he worked up there then .
Can you remember any hostellers who lived in the village who worked up there?
There was Mowlems.
Where did the workers live, because we believe they brought the Irish labourers over to work there but I can’t remember them in the village. We had our fair share of evacuees but I can’t remember any labourers.
No I can’t either. Unless they were in the caravans.
Unless they were brought in daily.
Weren’t there some caravans stuck around or something like that? Those old tin caravans around. They used to work night and day didn’t they it was twenty-four hour round the clock. What sort of shifts did they work?
Three shifts. We did not work shifts we were classed as staff.
What hours did you work?
8.30 a.m. to 5 p.m. or 5.30 p.m.
What about lunch?
I used to go home I can’t remember how long we had.
Did you use the canteen?
Yes occasionally. Another job was stock-taking now I think about it every quarter or half year for all the consumable items. You remember Ron Smedley well he was in the Canteen he was in there for ages. It was a massive place yes anything from light bulbs to toilet paper or anything. Consumable items generally . We kept records they were kept in the office and requisitions of what was going out if somebody had so many of this and stock-taking. Sometimes we had to climb to the top of some high bins used to send one of the lads up there to see what was in them.
It wouldn’t do today with the Health and Safety Inspector.
No. I used to enjoy that. That is generally the gist of what I remember about my time there.
Can you remember anything about the bungalows? Am I right in thinking they did not have glass in?
They were very small windows they were.
I would say it was perspex.
I think there were 14 of them two rows. The first big one was
the bosses house that was Smith’s house then there was the Victory place
where we used to go dancing. Mr. Buxton I was telling you about he lived down
there and this bloke Lynes he lived in there and generally departmental heads
lived in those places and roughly that is that side of it. That looks a bit
different to me going round the side of it.
We lived on Sheepfold Lane right at the top. In front of us was a ten foot
high wire fence prior to building all those houses, we were right at the very
top. We lived at No. 31 because these are bungalows, there was one set of
houses at the top Ron Cook lived in one and we lived in the next one. Now
that fence comes along and that is Sheepfold Farm Len Tinsley used to live
up there and you come right the way along there and right the way down there.
They must have taken some land early for the Admin. Block. That is Jubilee Field where the Athletic Club is and that is the road leading from Loughborough Road to Sheepfold.
Right, Right, well what is that bit there?
That is the Sandpit and the ….. Club
Is it.
That is the Jubilee Land we took over from the Depot. That is the tall hedge where the cricketers used to lob the balls over.
That ten foot fence was right in front of us and in the end 1950s. We used to have the prisoners coming to cut the grass every day, some used to take there shirts off and sunbathe, it was rather interesting watching them. There would be only three or four of them and we used to talk to them in those days. Quite nice they were and we used to pass them some food over. Some of them were very nice anyway and they let them out so they were harmless. Any more questions?
I will just have a quick look down the list. Characters you have talked about. On the Victory Club
Yes
The Victory Club - you used to go up there as well?
Yes we did. It was a bit out the way I suppose.
Who ran it?
There was a Committee. A bloke named Ike Simpson a very dark chap a very nice bloke he lived up there I think he was a caretaker.
Did you have to be a member?
I think you should have to. You had drinks too. You had to be a member and sign in anyway.
Did they run it themselves.
Yes they ran it themselves. This Ike Simpson he worked on the site nice chap he was and he went to be caretaker.
I say I was only there fifteen months until I volunteered originally there were three of you in the ATC in those days Johnny Pinkman. Mind you I was there size at one time. Allan Stainton his father was the Manager of the Co-op they eventually took a pub down The Meadows I used to go down there weekends to see them. I joined the ATC and was in the Scouts Corps. Johnny Pitman was also in them.
Where did you have to go?
On Sunday we went just off Shakespeare Street on Sunday go up Mansfield Road and turn off at the school there. We used to have a week away at aerodromes. We were all members of that anyway we all used to go to Nottingham for your original exams. I was alright. John Pickering was flat footed, and Allan Stainton was colour blind. Another fortnight I got another application to go down to Trent Bridge we had to go to two days aircraft recognition. They eventually found out I was deaf and not top quality. But the best of it was Jack Pickering he went into the Navy he was alright, but Allan Stainton he went into the Grenadier Guards he did alright for himself but to go into the Fleet Air Arm you had to be top quality. In the RAF you had a whole mornings medical first there was eye sight and then this Captain he bunged this thing in my ear “he’s hurting me” and when it came out there was blood on it. This eye sight man was a specialist and a very nice chap “ay me lad” he said “you have got a good set of eyes and you look after them too” He fetched this big man a medical man a Captain and after a discussion on the other side of the room that my hearing was a bit down.
Just one question I would like to ask when you had to go “walk-about” on the site when it was your week to deliver….
We had a bike actually. We had our own cycles.
You were allowed to use bikes.
Oh yes we couldn’t have got round in the time. We would go virtually right round the perimeter road. Even the Weighbridge was a bit farther away. I can see them now in the office Noel somebody his mother was Alice. Wilf he played cricket with us. He used to smoke his pipe in his little office shed.
He was allowed to smoke?
He was on the outside. They used to smoke in our office.
Did they really. So in a way there was a double perimeter fence?
Yes you had the very outside one and then the inner one going to B.
Were you provided with any special clothing?
We were provided with a mac if we were going round in all weathers. Not really if we went into the C region I forget what they called it there you had to strip of everything due to all the yellow. You had to get rid of everything no cigarettes allowed. When you went from B to C where you got this particular inspection it was like Customs. Yes we had bikes to belt round the site we used to enjoy that.
In the terms of the railway track there was a track going into each bunker. They used those little diesel shunters.
We used to have these little green things running around inside the big ones from the railway. Some of the girls came on the railway but quite frankly a lot I believe came on the bus. You would see them coming across the Green with their hair was yellow and everything.
You would be right there because Betty Stevenson she can remember there was a shift change sometime and she can remember trying to get to work the Ruddington people were not allowed on the bus first they always took the Depot people first .
I can certainly remember the girls walking across the Green with yellow hair and was surprised they were allowed to go by train because…..
There was one or two came from the north of the county I understand.
My sister worked there for a while and then went onto shifts at Ransome and Marles at Newark. Ivy would remember because she was attached to the AID she was on the inspection …..but not at all sure about the clothing she wore.
Do you think she would give us an interview?
She might do she is not very well at the moment but she is in Tenerife at the moment. I don’t know about Birt was Chef of Great Britiain at one time and that is where Ivy and Birt met.
That is what we have been trying to find out if there was any love matches made up there. That is a possibility.
That is where they met I may be wrong there. Birt when he came up here lived at Shaw’s, Mick Shaw, Cath Shaw next door but one (to Ivy) that is where Birt lodged if you like, I remember that now and whether this was where the romance began.. He lodged next door but one and he certainly worked up there and that was his job. Mowlams built it I remember at the time. I may have some photos of my father but he did not go until later. Mr. Philpotts was in charge of security he was an ex policeman you know how they got these jobs.
Have you got any photographs of the site?
I will have a wade through. I have got some somewhere …….he went on to hosiery.
Interviews > Interview with George Holland