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The 'Bombs to Butterflies' Interviews
Interviewee: Dennis Wright (A) & Harold Lowe (A2)
Interviewees: Val Clark and Wesley Scarrott
Date of Interview: 16/04/2002
Dennis can I ask you first when did you work on the depot?
Now, I've got a record of it at home but I can't think of it off-hand. I can't answer you that one yet but I can do. Erm Yes. (Sixties) Summat like that wont it because I was married to Edna.... Now I got married in the fifties, so yes, summat like the sixties.
So you'll let us know the date
Yes. I'll let you know, definitely.
What was your job?
I was with security, on security.
And what did it involve?
Live patrolling all the perimeter & guarded the gates in three shifts.
And did you have passes, you know, did you to inspect passes or anything?
We had to inspect and ask for documentation of anybody come through.
Did you have any incidences, you know, unexpected incidents.
No, not to my knowledge.
What hours did you work Dennis?
Eight hour shifts.
Was that a split shift or?
No (Regular?) straight through shift, you were either on mornings
And what hours were the hours?
The morning shift was six till two, the afternoon shift was two till ten, and the night shift was from ten till six in the morning.
And what was nights?
Ten till six in the morning.
Did you sign the official secrets act?
I had to do, yes.
Did you have a pass to get into work?
No because I was in uniform.
What was your uniform?
It was a security but we also had to go on a course for fire fighting anall.
Oh right, that's interesting. What did you have to do for that?
Well we had to go to Chorley for that on a special course.
So the security was also the fire?
Yes. We had our own fire ...
Did they have specialist firemen there as well as the security
No
Or did you just put another hat on and ...?
No, We'd got us own all us own uniform and us own fire engine but also we had to contact the outside fire engine at .. say the magazine or something round there was burning we had to fetch the outside. Same as if we had an incident as you remarked earlier on, we could arrest them, but we could do nothing we had to have the civic civil police in. They had to come in. They used to inspect us all through the night. The policemen used to come in, patrol us and see if everything were all right or and that were our ... he then got power of arrest, we hadn't, we could detain them, but we couldn't arrest.
Was this the local Village bobbies?
That or whoever
Did they come by car or walk round?
They'd come round on their bikes or it were Joe Knight and all that gang.
And on the security team how many people were there Dennis?
There were about six of us in a team on each shift.
That's per shift?
Yes that were a Leading Fireman and everything that was.
What was the uniform you had to wear. What colour was it and what was it ...?
It was a dark blue, similar to the old army things that Wes used to wear.
The battledress, you mean
No, it wasn't a battledress it was a proper (jacket). Yes it was a battledress, I'm sorry, and blue trousers ...and a pea-cat, we used to have the peaked caps.
Yes.
We said pea-cats.
Have you still got any of the badges or buttons or anything?
I've still got a photo somewhere in the house.
Oh that might be interesting, we'd like tha. I could take a photocopy of that.
Were there guards..? How many gates were there?
Well main gates, if you want the main gates. there was Loughborough Road and Asher Lane, bottom end. And the other gates was, another gate what we used to call Cable Ground then there was the Burning Ground round the corner.
Where was the Cable Ground?
Round the back.
On the perimeter road?
On the perimeter road. There were three there.
Yes there were three, three main, one where all the vehicles was and all that
sort of thing.
Because we had three auctions?
Yes, we used to have auctions every time. One was where the auctions (Yes) the other one ......... and the other one (Yes but) where you entered the ground so it was in a circle. Yes but ... they used to .... well they used to ....who ever did had to park their cars on the outside then they weren't allowed to bring their vehicles through that gate but they could come through go to the auction rooms. No they'd go round the vehicles first
Your talking about the main gates.
yes I'm talking about the main one. That was the only one they were allowed in that top gate. That's where the cells was. Yes and then they used to come in walk round the park with the catalogues and then they used to come back to the auction room and bid for them.
Yes but there was a system wasn't there?
Yes
There was a system as they filled one ground up,
Yes
As they filled one ground another ground was being checked want it?
Yes, lot numbers put on and other things like that.
The last ground was where they would take the vehicles away after being sold?
Yes they were only allowed that one gate that was Asher Lane gate that was the only way they could get the vehicles off. They were towed off.
The majority of vehicles came by rail?
Yes.
Some came by road, the majority by rail?
Yes.
Which they were off loaded by crane.
Yes.
Motorbikes?
Yes
Well you were on the crane business.
Yes.
We'll come to that in a minute. Were the guards ever armed?
All-us we were allowed to carry, even on night patrol was a lamp, we used to have a clock which we had to put a key into at certain points in the depot that includes ....all the depot there was special key points and all as we had was a wooden truncheon and you used to have to use them at one time. Then later on we got a bike, I'd rather walk than use the bike, 'cos them big old fashioned pedal bikes and then we finished up with land rovers then.
Oh.
We ended up with a land rover and no patrols.
Were you by yourself when you did the patrolling at night or was?
Yes. Yes. Ooh you were on your own.
Say Chuck Wakling, he's dead now bless him, that's our Senior Leading Fireman
he'd tek us out, drop us off 'cos you had to stop on the ground as well, ...
you had to patrol the ground as well, that particular ground at night, on
your own, but he had to come round periodically and check to see you were
alright and it was'nt a very nice experience.
Who was the main person?
What?
Who was over you?
Oh it was Snowdon.
No I mean over your security
Snowdon was our FPO, he were the FPO. He was in charge of security.
Who was over of security?
Well Stevington was over all the lot of us.
Who was over of security in the admin?
That's what I've said.
No, who was in the building with you while you were on security? Who was boss man on the nights you were on
Oh Chuck Baker was our leading fireman.
Yes but was he over the whole lot?
He was over us.
He came from Gotham didn't he?
Well yes your talking about Bert Pygall. He was a Senior Leading Fireman he was. That's correct Bert Pygall.
Was there a guard house?
We just had a little office as you went through the main gates on the left.
It was like a big block. Well one side, I mean I can talk now 'cos I'm not bound by the Secrets Act. But one side that was our security also we had revolvers in there, guns, but we wasn't allowed to touch 'em.
Ah. Who was allowed to touch them?
We could get into the room if we were asked to, we had… it had a special key but only the leading the man in charge of our crew was allowed to go with that key and a police man from outside.
Who was the responsible, who would have used the revolvers if they had needed ..
Well they was, now and again they were shipped out to different depots.
Oh I see. Oh I see. Not for your security?
Not for our security at all. We was not allowed to touch them.
Were there any lock-up cells?
No, none at all.
So you have just told us that the depot was patrolled on foot and in a vehicle ..
Eventually.
How much were you paid Dennis? Do you remember?
Ooh ....... unless I can find one of my old pay slips.
Any idea, was it in pounds or?
Ooh yes it was in pounds.
Do you want to switch off for a minute.
Back on. No arguing or its gloves out.
Did you have any meal breaks at all then?
Oh yes we used to have them at work, one meal, you know when we come off patrol .... we'd go out say we'd be out about a couple of hours walking round might be a bit longer, you'd come in and you'd hey a cup of tea and then you'd have a main half hour break.
At the canteen where you'd get a hot meal?
Proper canteen. They wont hot meals. The canteen wasn't open at night. During the day if you was down that end on patrol or checking items which we used to do that was our job to check all the items and then if you were down near the canteen you could pop in have a cup of tea and a sandwich there where they had hot meals during the day but that was all you were allowed to do. Otherwise you had to go back to your to the main place at the main gate, sit down with the rest of the lads who were off patrol and then carry on from there until your shift finished.
Can you recall any funny incidents at all Dennis?
Yes I can.
Go on then lets hear some.
I was on A Avenue, where the admin was, and where the boss and all the big wigs worked. I had checked the static water tanks and the mains where all the hoses were, and all the hydrants. Then I went round goes to the back to check them there I turned this tap on, just to test it quick flash, and the damn thing stuck, (laughter) I flooded all the back end of the admin block out. I wasn't in very good books for a while, (laughter) but it was an accident. It was a faulty bolt.
Any more funny incidents?
No.
Can you remember any shall we say any love affairs either illicit or otherwise without mentioning names. Names if they're legal, did anyone get married from up there meet someone up there and fall in love or?
Not to my knowledge.
Did you have any colleagues who were characters that you worked with, you know that?
We all was in our own little way characters – but I mean..
And have you got any..
That man wasn't liked very much ...
We're talking about characters
Yes
Photographs or souvenirs if you've got anything you know, you just talked about one photograph ... you were in your uniform .. we'd like a photograph of that if you've got one.
If I can find it you can have it.
And if you've got any of your buttons off your uniform or anything of that sort
No I don't think so. Well when you finished you see, when you finished with the security you handed all that stuff back.
When did you finish up there?
Well, its well .... I were there quite a few years till after a while I come off that and I went onto the group with Harold.
What was the group what was ..?
But I worked in on the big… where the railway used to go round on the outside ..and it were like a big storage place where we used to ... and all as it was were empty tins, empty ammo tins.
... and what we were doing was, periodically, we had to paint them for, we'd shift them from one part to another part and that's how we was and then you went in different sheds doing different things.
Such as?
We has such as, thats all we had to muck about with, just ammo tins different sizes.
Was there machinery in the sheds?
There was lathes in one but we had nothing to do with that, we weren't allowed to go in there. That was the REME, the REME had that to do. Cos' there was a REME squad there, garage and everything, that was there department.
Is there anything else you want to tell us? Anything else you can think of?
Not off hand. If I can remember...I'll
You'll
.. put it down same as Harold ... and copy it.
O.k., thank you.
Harold when did you work at the depot?
Round about 1955.
Until when?
About 1965, but in between time they didn't have the work so we were transferred to the ROF gun factory, for about four or five month and then came back onto another job, which was the vehicle side with the cranes, what .. called slinging, but 1955 when I first worked there I went into the er.. repair shop where they do all the er.. maintenance, maintaining all the village(?) vehicles, trains, cranes all the vehicles on depots, what belonged to the ministry were all taken into the shop which is now still a part of the Heritage Centre. The same building where I worked (Oh right) and the same place where I worked is still there and the same pit that they used to drive the trains over to get underneath the trains or the lorries, the pits still there (Oh) and the canteen more or less similar to where we used to have it. (Oh right)
You mentioned 1945 and German prisoners before we started recording were you working on the depot then or was that
No no, that was my first job before I went, that was the job before I went into the services in 1946...
And what
in the army
And what were you doing in 45.
The prefabricated houses came in boxes to Taylor Woodrow and were put in small hangers facing the main Asher Lane Road, there was about 15 of them, these boxes, like big ammunition boxes, were filled with different pieces like corners, plates which belonged to the prefabriced units. They was taken out these boxes by the POW prisoners and put on a shelf. There were girls which was on the landing where the shelves were, (we used to take them off) and their job was to put one in a bag it went to the next girl on rollers, she put another one in a bag then it went to the end, where it was tied up. Then it went to the end of the factory where it was weighed. The weight had to be the same weight in every bag. If the weight wasn't the same everything had to be emptied out to see what was missing, if they'd put two by mistake.
Yes, yes.
They'd speak to them and
So it was like a production line building up a Meccano set
That's correct
Ready to go away and when the bag got on building site it would be opened up, and all the parts would be there ready for assembly.
That, but there was only the small parts, everything that belonged
to probably a door or window frame something like that.
I think..
Can’t explain..
... exactly.
.... er you know sandbag sand size.
Did you get on alright with the Germans?
Yes, they used to tell you everything. A German told me, you know he said, it was war he said, I remember your tanks coming down this road we stopped the first one so the rest couldn't get out and we stopped the end one. He said it was just one of those things, another sergeant who was in the German army said he had been very close to Moscow and he was looking, saw Moscow through his binoculars. (Good heavens) Different ... some had come from the airborne,.. this bloke was in the airborne (yes) some, one was with the SS, you know. (Yes, ah) There was a variety they weren't all from one regiment. There was a mixture (a mixture). (Very interesting.)
To go back to your job then in the erm.. maintenance if you want to call it that. (Yes) What exactly was your job then Harold?
I was a fitters mate, the person I worked with was a very clever person and his name was Arthur Carter. Now his father had something to do with the playing fields, recreation ground (Oh yes,) he went to Canada. Now I think he were a/her? son. (Sylvia Carter, Yes) In fact, he had another brother that worked there ... almost exactly the same date, Arthur Carter. The Carter I worked with lived down Clifton Road. The other Carter lived on er.. the estates, you know down St. Mary's ... that way on ...
That wouldn't be Philip, no its Parker I'm thinking of sorry... Carter.
No, Arthur Carter and er.. he could do anything, in fact he told me of one instance where everyone had tried to get this engine working in this lorry. Everyone failed so they gave it to Arthur. Arthur stripped it down and you know how you get the plug number five onto that plug number four onto that plug in rotation. (Yes) He found out it had been cannibalised and a wrong one had been put on. What they used to do was get a screwdriver, put it down the hole, take the plug out, put it down where the plug goes turn the handle on the engine and wait for the piston coming up. (Ah) And write that number down and they found out that it was a gone carburettor (Yes) sort of thing. (Yes) That was only a for instance where he used to strip everything down to his own carburettors, everything, he was a very (... very clever) very good. I used to go with Arthur right at the other end of the depot to where the generators were, ex search light generators, to light some of the buildings up that hadn't got proper lighting .Every morning we had to start them up with a big starting handle at the front ... ... (Yeah) To the, to the, he, on the fly wheel Arthur rigged up, er.. he'd got a motor and he rigged up something that the wheel went onto the flywheel to help the flywheel turn round (Oh) (Yeah) ... A small motor he started up that had something like a small wheel on it, and pushed it onto the flywheel, as I turned the handle to the flywheel to help it turn. (Yeah) Every year we used to strip them down, we used to have three. We stripped one completely down and done it all the way up.
And did you work on all sorts of vehicles then or just one particular type, I mean did you work on say the .. or the .. ?
The cranes, mostly the cranes ... lift the vehicles onto the er... I don't know the names of the cranes. Very large cranes to lift these big monsters off these big lorries, very heavy diesal rollers and tractors and things like that.
And what hours did you work?
Just er.. eight till about half past four, five o'clock.
You didn't work shifts then?
No, no we had a job to get in Saturday morning. That were
overtime.
When we had a dirty job, where we dirtied us hands that.. cos' everyone was
looking at each others timesheet to see if they got dirt money, DM, and that
was what they called ten shillings a week which was obviously ... ... they
put their timesheets in the office, then used to put it in a box, then other
people would go in and they'd look at the timesheets to see if you'd got this
DM on. (Laughs) There was always arguments, you know.
What did you get another penny an hour or something like that for dirty money?
We got a flat rate of ten shillings a week extra.
And what did you get paid per week, can you remember Harold?
Ooh, I don't know unless about a fiver or summat, I don't know ...about five pounds a week.
Did you sign the official secrets act?
Yes, (you did) in the admin, yes.
And did you pass, did you have to have a pass to get into work?
No. We were all recognisable.
Yes. You were all known?
Yes.
A small group?
Yes.
How many actually were there actually on, on your particular job, you know, working in the maintenance if you'd like to call it that?
Er.. er.. I'd say about a dozen of us, including Sid Squires, I don't know whether you know Sid.
Yes.
Did you wear overalls or a uniform or anything?
Yes, we er.. had the overalls.
They were supplied for you?
Yes they was washed every week.
Did they wash them or did you just take them home?
Well, no, no, they was washed... we'd take them down to the building there. And the building used to smell a bit because they had a lot of cats. (Laughs)
Yes I remember it
Erm.. What arrangements, did you have meal breaks, what arrangements did you have?
I think we had about half an hour in a small canteen which is more or less still there.
That's for your lunch?
Yes.
You didn't hane hot meals?
Well we used to boil our own kettles, we had us own supply
You took, (laughs) you took sandwiches then?
Yes, we took our own sandwiches. There was a canteen there but it wasn't for us.
You didn't use it?
No. That was for the others.
Did you have a morning break for coffee or anything, or ..?
Be about ten minutes. (Yes) We used to go home for my dinner, sorry, (Yes) dinnertime ... about half an hour, used to go home for that.
You'd got time to go home in half an hour.
Yes.
Did you ever have anything like 'Music Whilst You Work' or anything in the ..
Unofficially, yes.
Unofficially?
Yes because I went home with the lorry and er.. ... fetch the radio from home (ah ah) and took it back to the factory and then we had it under a bench because we/they wanted to listen to the er, er racing and things like that.
Oh right, not the lunch time, because they used to do a special...
No, no, no there was too much banging and noise, you know, grinding and ...
Did they have that in any of the other parts of the depot at all?
No.
They didn't, no. I just wondered 'cos quite a lot of the factories did during the war didn't they?
Yes, depends on the noise.
What arrangements were made for laundering your overalls Harold? Did you have to do them yourself or ...
No they went down to a building where they was taken in by two ladies that worked there.
Yeah, they had cats. (Ha ha.)
I've forgotten what there names was now.
Were there any emergencies or whilst you were there, you know, any fires or anything or explosions or ..
The only fire we knew was on the ..... ooh there was an incident near the end canteen, not the big canteen, the canteen ......where they had the generators way out at the end.
But the end of what Harold?
The left hand corner what they call the avenue. (Yes) You know where the bull dozer was. Now it appears that someone must have, cos there was banks there, high banks, like blast banks, you know the generator building was in the middle of those and the canteen was on the opposite side of the bank near the roadway, main road. Someone must have thrown a cigarette or something and the grass caught fire and it all went over .... and it was going towards the generator housewhich had diesel and all that stored there and I think they had to fetch Dennis and his fire brigade to come and (and put it out) the firemen to put it out, yes. At the time I wasn't there. I was on er, down at Asher Lane because we had to look at those buildings. They had some buildings down Asher Lane and a generator there, which we had to go and top up with diesel and see if everythings okay.
So Dennis and his band saved the day?
Yeah well, on ... it depended .. see to er.. we had to know all about the chemicals what the symbols was and everything (Yes) and erm for magnesium which was the most dangerous of anything on that depot it was sand, we used to blast on to it, but for others it was water and then for such as Harolds on about machinery it would be foam. They were the three things we used.
Did he ask you Dennis, if there were any funny incidents that happened?. Now I remember Sid Squires when we used to talk about bank robbers. He put a silk stocking over his face and he looked ugly, and he put his cap on and he went walking round the depot and he went into the next building to where we worked which is still there today, and people in that garage who was working in the garage there, didn't recognise him they just had a glance at him, because he looked that ugly (terrible) because at that time we had prisoners from Nottingham working in the depot. (Oh right) In fact one prisoner tried to get out the main gate because we had sheep there and he was driving the sheep towards the main gate, 'Open the gate, ... got to let the sheep out', (Good heavens) they wouldn't let him out. That was one prisoner (Could you tell he was trying to escape.)
Yes. That was the same time more or less that Sid Squires he was always playing tricks and someone phoned the security up to come down (Ha ha) ... .. .. like that .. you just look at them but you don't stare at them, you look at them. (Yeah) And one of his, another of his main tricks in the factory, Sid Squires, 'cos he worked in the stores was .... fence there, you know, the fencing he used to get er a squirter and it was a fire extinguisher, fill it with water, and ............ and squirt people with it (Ha ha) that was working like Ben Gilling. (Oh Ben, I know Ben, he's dead now int he.) Yeah.
Have you got any photographs or souveneirs of the site at all Harold?
No you wasn't (nothing at all) allowed to take any photos, you know (no). (Only your memory.) Yeah (Only your memory) Yeah..
If I recollect Sid only had, he had a glass eye didn't he? (Who?) Sid Squires or was that Horace?
It wasn't Sid
Forget that then.
No, no not Sid
Is there anything else you want to tell us? Any other funny incidents or anything that happened or...
No. I know that ...who was that Dennis who used to round checking all the wagons to see if they was empty?
Oooh I know who used to paint all the numbers on it that was, (yeah) that was, that was Rick.
Yeah and you used to go inside the railway wagons to see if anything was cleared out and check it up and then he'd jump off the wagon.(Yeah). Now sometimes people used to frighten the life out of him because before the railway wagons went out to be taken away they closed all the doors. Stan Henson's job (Ha ha) ... working on the railway with the engine where they used to (cough) ..... John Godber that was his name John Godber. When he went inside the wagons he used to creep round and shut the door (Ha ha) and he'd shout, banging on the door, '... let me out, ... let me out and he'd stand around you know he used to think the engine were going to take him away because Stan was very quick closing the doors .. right .. yeah. That were one of the tricks he played on John.
He were a comic he were Stan, 'cos he was the engine driver. (Stan Henderson). Stan Henson. Well old Stan he used to come out, we were supposed to check him like when he come out and when he come back in, but we got that used to him 'cos we know he used to go in the White Horse he used to like a couple of pints. Thats the time, do you remember, they were going around with a load of wagons on and they took it off the rails. (Yeah) All the lot, the engine .. the wagons and everyhing the lot went ... he'd had too much pop, he had, at the White Horse. ( Ha ha).
Ooh we also had to see to the Boiler House. The boilers, you
know, the tubes, clean those out and er. In their canteen, they had half an
hour break, in their canteen and sometimes we used to go in there and there
used to be about half a dozen of us you know and we used to have a laugh and
a joke you know and there was abloke called Horace Norman. (Ah little Horace)
Little Horace. Yes, Yes I remember Little Horace. The chimney sweep. Now he
worked there. He used to help and er they were talking about the First World
War when he said "I were in the Bantams", he said, but er he said
and they got disbanded and this bloke said, this person said "Well you
know why they got disbanded don't you Horace"? He said "Why what
do you know about it"? He said, "Well when the Germans used to come
over he said they lost that many prisoners because they used to go back with
one under each arm".
Alan Sadler was a pipe fitter (Yeah, thats right Alan was). Now Alan Sadler
he used to hate doing jobs that Ike Wilson had done (yeah) you know as regards
the steam traps outside (yeah) Because Ike was one of those that he didn't
want the job to leak but he used to put this red lead on the pipes and (thats
right) on the nuts and of course when the red lead set you couldn't undo them.
Now Alan Sadler used to do it properly you know with proper hemp, so when
he went back to the job he could easily undo the nuts. So to finish up he
says, to the foreman, I'm not doing any jobs after Ike Wilson. He said because
you can spend half the day trying to undo the nuts and he said you can't do
'em. Ike always used to take a pot of red lead .... but his joints never used
to leak. (Leaked) (No) (Yes.) But you couldn't uno 'em after (Yeah) (You used
to have arguments ...two).
No one used to like working with Ike because where ever he was on that depot
everyone knew where Ike was because he had this permanent cough. When he was
coming down early in the morning "Here's Ike coming down the road ...".
You know from the main er (gate) from the main gate. Cough, cough, cough;
cigarette in his mouth, cough and all the way right into the factory and no
matter where he worked you'd here this cough. So no one used to say I'm not
working with Ike every one knows where you are. (Ha ha) (Right, okay, then
I don't think there's anything else is there). As I say, afterwards when they
got a bit lean and they made a lot of us redundant well and said well we can
transfer you to R.O.F (Royal Ordnance Factory) or wherever, so er then I applied
to come back and they said well there's a job vacancy on the cranes, which
er, I went onto the cranes you know and that's how I knew about this circular.
When the, whilst one lot of vehicles were being auctioned off in the auction
room the other ground and was empty and was being filled up. Then the other
ground you know that would be having the lot numbers put on (yeah) ready for
the next auction. So when one auction 'ud finish, another auction ... so there
was three grounds, three main grounds (They used to say about three or four
auctions Harold, a year.) (Three) Three. There'd be three woldn't there? (Three
auctions a year) There was three grounds want they.( Yes, yes.) and if er
you wanted, gotta bit of spare time you could always go in a car somewhere
in the car parks couldn't you, and get in the back seat. (Ha, ha.) (They were
nutters, I'll tell you them on the grounds). Yeah, but ..
Can you recall, how long when somebody purchased something at an auction how many days they'd got before they cleared it off site?
They had to clear it off the same day.
Same day?
As quickly as possible (yeah) as soon as they had, as soon as the gate was open and they, Harold's lot, used to turn them out onto the road (and then) it was up to them what happened.
It was a good job for getting tips (yeah) because if you'd got a good car (yeah) and you wanted it, put it on a lorry, you do not want that car damaging. (Right). So if you were a good customer and if you g'en the (e y'are) (e y'are) (a back-hander). Okay you put the sack bags on, you put all the cloths on, so when the crane lifted it up with the rope it didn't damage the car. ... (yeah ... (yeah) ... a large stick on the top like a big clothes prop to keep the guides, the wires apart and lift it on, the lorries or cars onto the vehicles. (Yeah) You got regular people, and no matter what, Land Rovers especially, no matter what condition they was in, whether they had been dropped in the sea or anything, they'd buy them because they used to cannabilise the parts, a lot of them went to Holland (Oh) Yeah. They could have dropped out of you know a parachute (yeah) with the Airborne, dropped out and smashed on the ground, they'd still have that vehicle brought cheap.
There used to be, tell you what we used to have a lot of, there was a lot of Cockneys, Londoners, want they (Yeah) that used to do a lot of the bidding. There used to be what you call, you know how they ... one here one there around the auction room, and they used to bid (a ring) ( a ring yeah) they used to have a ring and I used to hate the sights of them I did. I could never get on with them. (Yeah) No. But at one time, I'm going back to part of your conversation. You know when you used to have to inspect the back of the lorries ... started inspecting back of lorries because at one time that lorry 'ud come in and it could be full of motorbikes (yeah) and that used to go as a lot and then we / they rumbled it then and thats why the lorries were emptied, it could be a load of compressors, machinery, tools, (lathes) lathes anything that went with that lot (Oh I see) and then I think the Ministry thought hey up (twigged it) they're getting two for one here (yeah) and they they we had they had they used to hev to empty all the vehicles (yeah) yeah before they went on the auction and then they were all sold the motorbikes in one section, Land Rovers, cars, lorries everything was sold (every item was sold as one single item) Yeah.
Could some of the vehicles be driven away ... ?
Oh yes, you could start some of them. They used to a lot of the er people that bought em you'd see they'd come with their own mechanics, some tek them away with trade plates but a lot of them used to bring their own mechanics as well, and they'd have a go at any... if they could fire it, then they'd put a trade plate, their garage plate, trade plate what you used to call it, to take it from one point to the other, then they used to drive them away.
Because when they was viewing it was your people that used to escort these people around for viewing (yeah) and I remember this person who, on security, who lived at er Clifton (Oh that was Harry Shelton) Yes. (Yeah) and he used to say to them do you want a good one, a good runner, and they used to say yes, I can put you onto one, 'ere y'are mi duck, and he hed no idea whether it was a good runner or not (Ha, ha) and they rumbled him at the end. He was teking back handers for cars that was rubbish. (Oh he got sacked he did, Harry). He was one of those persons (He got sacked he did, Harry) He was one of those persons who'd got a large family, he wasn't smart, but they didn't want to sack him because he'd go straight onto social security, so they kept him on thats, on the depot on security to keep him off the dole. (Oh) You know, he wasn't bothered was he, he was, he was a right lad wasn't he. (Ah but he mixed with a wrong crowd. I'm not mentioning ..... somebody's still alive in that crowd that I know and I don't want to get involved on that one (Ha, ha) No, no I know .. He used to say to these people going round viewing, the viewers, this is a good one, this is a runner, I know that, you know, because ... they could not start these cars up because they used to, a person called Jack Bateman (Yeah, old Jack) used to go round with his tube and empty all, syphon all the petrol out, officially, (Ah yeah) (Yeah oh yes) into Jerry cans and stick 'em in the back of his Land Rover so they couldn't start the cars up, well probably start them up with the bit of petrol that was left in them (but they wouldn't run for long) but they'd soon dry up and then he used to take it round into the depot and it was put in a pump (yeah) and they used to use that petrol for the vehicles on the depot so that we didn't have to buy any and the diesel. (Yeah, everything, yes. That was Jackie Bateman's job all the time want it ?) Yes ... one of the mechanics or R.E.M.E. shop that made it, at one time he had to syphon it, and they made him a special thing like stirrup pump, didn't they?.) That's correct yes, Jack used to use a stirrup pump. ( ........ I don't know which one of the mechanics done it, fixed this gadget, just do that and then as soon as it started coming through the other end, he put it straight into a jerry can.) Yes. ( and that was one of the lads in the ... one of the, in the, I don't know which, the R.E.M.E. shop, garage or what that made him that.) Yes,.. (It was like an ordinary, you know, the old fashioned stirrup pump we had during the war.) (Yeah) (Thats all it was) (Yeah) (but by he used to shift some stuff) I know we had us own petrol pump and diesel pump didnt we? (Yeah) in the grounds (Yeah) (Yeah) and never bought any. We used to take it all out the vehicles.
The people that brought vehicles then they had got no petrol in them when they had to get them off the site themselves?.
Well no, they weren't allowed because it was a danger want it anyway and it was a good way of money saving weren't it.
Well that were another thing that came in later, cos' they used to come in, some 'ud be full of petrol.
Was the big canteen, going back to the canteen, the big canteen, only open at auction time?
Yes
Cos' you did mention when I questioned you taking sandwiches .. you said something about the canteen, the big canteen was only for and I didn't quite catch who it was for.
A lot of the group used to go to the canteen at lunch didn't they Harold?
Yes it was a canteen for the people what worked on the depot. They had two one at the end there towards Asher Lane and one farther up towards the avenue.
Yeah, in the middle on the 'A' avenue. That were a great big one that was. Dot and er, was it Dot and Nora used to be in charge.
Oh, Dot and Nora, yes.
They went on the buses ....... when they finished on the depot. Well they wer in charge of the canteen. They were a pair of comedians them two was. We'll say no more about that. They were good workers ....if we'd got a job to do say you'd got to unload some wagons, it didn't matter whether it was raining or not they'd work in the rain and er unload the wagons and then they'd have us break afterwards. They won't say come on it's one o'clock lets stop. They'd say well we'll finish this job so the wagon can go out and Stan Henson and his engine can tek the wagons away empty you know, so we used to unload them ..
You were supplied with your rubbers want you, you were supplied with rubbers, your hat and coat.
Yeah but you couldn't work in them ...couldn't work in them could you they were too stiff.
We're talking about vehicles, I've heard a tale that there was also armoured vehicles dismantled there, tanks and the like.
No. The only heavy weights were bull dozers ....that was the heaviest
The only thing that come in that was special and that was them Trials bikes and thats all there was Wes and they belonged to I think they was trial bikes from the Royal Navy and before they was sold they was fetched off they were withdrawn from the auction.
They were workshops weren't they army workshops.
Yes
And did they repair tanks? There's been talks of tanks seen on the site.
The only track vehicle was a bulldozer very ... we had one on the depot ourselves, didn't we (Yeah) working.
I can't recollect that. I can remeber the vehicles but never a tank. No never.
So what did the R.E.M.E. do there then, whose vehicles did they repair?
It wasn't a large building was it. No it was a small. What did they do? I've forgot now because that was very hush hush, want it, that part, the R.E.M.E. in fact we, we hed to before we went we had to ...
Didn't John Savage work there, a bloke called John Savage, I think he was a relation to the coal man, at the corner of Clifton Road
Yeah, I remember John. John Savage worked there.
Is that the same John that now lives in West Bridgford?
I don't know
There is one .... I don't know.
There is one I will check that ... He probably ...
I remember him coming to our workshop.
If he were anything, not tank, it would probably be an armoured vehicle thats all I'd say. You know just like an armoured car, I can't remember ...
It was only a quarter of the size of our ....
Oh yeah, it was only a small building.
Small lathes weren't they.
Mmm
Any other incidents you can remember, like Horace Norman?
Yes, Horace Norman he'd been out for a drink and er he was a bit under the weather you know and er he came to the main gate, Asher Lane ground and he wanted to come in and .. said Sorry Horace you can't come in you've had too much to drink and I believe that was later on at night you know he wanted to come in to go to the boiler house, and er anyway they wouldn't let him come in and he was determined to get in. So they had to phone up the main person over the depot. He was Skevington (Yeah Skev). Ando Skevington had to come down to this main gate, have a word with Horace and tell him that he wasn't allowed in because he'd had too much to drink. But Horace was that character, he were determined that he could get into that depot and he was, you know, could tell people what to do. But er anyway that was an incident when (he didn't win the day) he didn't win the day. (Ha,ha)
Well Skevington .. can you remember the as we went through the twitchel as it is now Wes, (Yes) Off Lees Road, do you remember, that part used to be like little, like little houses, well Skevington lived in one of those, and thats where the .. P.O used to live in, in one of those, that they belonged to the depot, they did, and we used to have a big hall .. we used to have dances just on the left hand side an'all.( ... canteens) and we used to have dances ( ... boiler house) Yeah. (Yeah)
'Cos I used to load that hopper up .... because I used to go for my pint, you know, and a game of darts (....) about eight, load it up, load the hopper up and I used to put wood there at the side, about four pieces of wood so I could get more coal in so that it would last longer (Ha, ha) so that I didn't have to go so early next morning to fill the hopper up. (Ha,ha) That was good that was.
Come on then if you've got to do your shopping.
Interviews > Interview with Dennis Wright & Harold Lowe