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The 'Bombs to Butterflies' Interviews
Interviewees: Ken Marriott (A) and Jack Bagguley (A2)
Interviewers: Margaret Lawson and Ivy Barber
Date of Interview: 11.06.99
Hello and thank you both for coming and talking to me this
morning.
Now Ken, were you born in Ruddington?
Yes.
You were born in Ruddington, and you’ve lived here all your life?
Just had a short spell in Nottingham
That’s all, very good. And you can remember before the War when the Country Park, which was the Depot, was still farm land?
Yes.
And you too Jack, thank you so much for coming. And you too remember - you grew up in the village?
I was born in the village.
Of course, Baguley is a good village name.
I’ve been here all my life.
You’ve been here all your life. And you remember the site when it was farm land?
Yes.
Good. Now, Jack, you say you ploughed on the land. Can you show me where?
This field here. This was the farm I started to work at when I left school at 14.
You were 40 years old?
I was 14 years old.
You worked at Ruddington Fields Farm?
It could be. There are two farms, one is Field Farm and one is Fields Farm.
Yes, that’s right.
When I started there, Cripwells kept this farm and then they took over the other farm, this one, in 1941 from Linekars. Then there was a small piece of the site, we had a small piece, about 30 acres, in the top corner where the big hangers used to be and that’s where ...yes.
That would be over – just over here?
Yes that’s over there, that’s right.
Where the big hangers are?
There’s the allotments; they are the top allotments like this top corner bit here. They called those allotments Twitch Hill. They were called Twitch Hill
Twitch Hill?
Twitch Hill Allotments. Where you’ve got the dot there, this bit in the corner is about 2 acres that Burnhams got. Sammy. You know Sam, that’s what his Dad bought in 1947. They were bought when the Paget estate was sold; Sam and his Dad bought that.
Sam, what’s his other name?
Burnham. Sam still goes up there now although he is blind.
Yes. We are hoping somebody he knows is going to talk to him, not me, but someone he knows. So this is where the hangers were then down here?
That’s right.
So where the lane goes now down past Moor End Farm. So it was over here where the hangers were and you ploughed there?
Yes.
How much ploughed land was there?
There was a lot altogether. Actually, when they took the ground for the site the full amount they took about 666 acres because there were two lots of bungalows you see. Where Barleylands is now, where I live now, that was all bungalows and living quarters where the canteen was and then right over that far top corner there were some more. What used to call The Avenue.
I know The Avenue.
There is a house still left there isn’t there?
Yes, now where is the map that I had on there?
More or less opposite ‘The Poplar’s. (A house on Loughborough Road)
I’ll show you a map, it’s easier to show you. So you see originally this is where the outline of the country park when the Council bought it but it went up the Green then.
Came out onto the Green where you come out now. Where the Youth Club is.
Yes, that’s right.
There was some reason why they couldn’t make that road through there - because it belonged to some old lady who lived in the Park, Ken didn’t it?
Aye.
She wouldn’t let them have that bit of road but by the time she died her daughter …because… they built some houses there, 16 houses there – she let it be sold. It used to be the school gardens there.
That’s right
When you go through past the Youth Club and through the jitty on the right that’s where the school gardens used to be.
Yes, down Lees Road now?
Yes that’s right, up to Lees Road.
Now tell me – you say there was a lot of ploughed land?
Oh yes there was a lot of ploughed land – a vast amount.
I would have imagined it was for grazing. Some of it was very wet, round this area – look where the brook comes?
Yes it was. Where the brook is that’s right. But most of it was all good land.
Most of it was good land, right and it was sown for crops?
Yes
What sort of crops?
All kinds. Potatoes, sugar beet, wheat, corn, barley, all the lot.
So, both grain and roots?
Yes, grain and roots.
Who did the land belong to? Was it Elms Farm?
It belonged to Beeby’s at the time the site was taken it belonged to Beeby’s. Stan ……… before Beeby’s then Machins in the village now. They had it then.
But, it wasn’t from Elms Farm then?
They had Elms Farm that came into it as well. All the lot, and there’s Sheepfold.
Yes, that’s right.
And the Elms was there.
And a track down there?
That was the track. That was Lovers’ Lane wasn’t
it across there?
That’s Lovers’ Lane.
(Laughter)
Then that road turned up to Moor Farm. But you’ve got Moor End Farm.
Are you thinking of…………..?
That’s Richardson’s old place that is.
Yes. I’m going to see Mrs. Margaret Walker, who was a Miss Richardson.
That’s right.
She’s alive still and I’m going to see her, she lives in the Cotswolds.
She’s left Aslockton then?
Yes, she’s been living in the Cotswolds. Anyhow, so that came down there and there is a lane off, look, here to Moor End Farm half way down Asher Lane.
Yes. That’s right, that’s right. That’s just before you get to the crossing.
Yes, that’s right. What was that called?
Don’t think it had a name, never known it to have a name.
You see, the other one, Asher Lane went up to Cripwells Farm. That one was Linekar’s you used to go over the old railway but that was Cripwells. Cripwell took both of them, they had this one a long, long while then they took that one about 1941. They had a farm at Bunny, Cripwells did, and sold that, later on in years they bought it back when Strawson came here.
Yes, I see. That’s good.
Pidcocks lived in the Elms and they kept racehorses.
Where?
In the back there where the Youth Club is now that was the Paddock. They had a racehorse called Ruddington and when the local fair came, they had the Noah’s Ark with horses on it and he named one of them Ruddington as well.
Did he? Did Ruddington ever win any races?
Don’t know, too young to gamble.
(Laughter)
Now tell me about this.
The Elms was all stables going back to the days of Philo Mills. That’s where all his grooms and everything they were all stables for his coach orses and blood horses and things like that, not working farm horses. He came here in 1856 wasn’t it and bought Ruddington Hall and finished it off. He farmed all this land round here.
That’s right, Philo Mills came in about the 1880s. He improved the land and put drainage in and everything.
That’s right.
Because it’s very low lying land and when we re-instated the pond, when we scooped that out a thick grey horrible clay came out. On this map you see there’s lots of these little rings here can you see them?
Yes.
I think they must be the ponds.
They are Foamers, Big Foamer and Little Foamer.
That must be Big Foamer Jack, there, and that’s Little Foamer I think.
Now that one, Big Foamer; that used to fill with a spring at one end and it was shaped a bit like a horse shoe and it started off flat went round like that and came back again and it used to fill at one end with a spring which still runs today.
Yes, I’m sure.
It’s quite right across the site right to where the kiosk is. There is a big manhole isn’t there and if you got your tab down there you’ll hear it.
Yes, I’ve heard it.
It runs right across to Hareham Gardens.
And then it goes round there and it’s called Jury’s Brook.
When they built houses along Musters Road they box culverted it so far down towards the railway.
Right down to the railway.
Then under the railway and round there.
But we used to call it Gibbey’s Brook then.
You called it Gibbey’s Brook?
I don’t know why. I wonder if there was a Gibson somewhere.
Oh yes, there was a Gibson - some time back, I’d have to look it up.
We never called it Jury Brook, never.
Strangely enough, the road on the same map is called Mustard Lane.
Yes, that’s right.
So where Little Foamer and Big Foamer were and these other little bits, it must have been rather wet and you couldn’t plough there, could you?
Oh yes, it was all under plough. A lot of it round here was
grazing but it was ploughed right up here. That was always clear, no weeds
ever grew in that part there. When it was a nice still night, and we had a
frost it always seemed to freeze quicker than any other water. Then we used
to skate on that. You could run off the field and slide right across it. We
had one or two broken legs in our time.
(Laughter)
Were you contemporaries – No, you wouldn’t be contemporaries of Edgar Stevenson?
Oh, I knew Edgar. Oh yes, we knew Edgar.
He used to tell stories like this.
This is where I gardened up here. We was up there years ago when my Dad was alive when we kept pigs and poultry and then we came down…. I’m still in there right in this corner here.
And that was called Twitch Hill?
That’s Twitch Hill.
This is Buttercup.
No, ours is Buttercup.
Yours is Buttercup.
I’m still in that corner there. I’ve been there donkeys’ years
If we’ve got time at the end I’ll show you the 1850 map with Hareham Gardens on and the Jury Brook. And the plots on Hareham Gardens are unchanged since 1851. The paths and things are still exactly the same.
Miss Blood – did you know her?
Min Blood.
Yes, I came in 1957.
She bought those for about £350 when the Paget Estate was sold.
So that was a great thing in the village when the Paget Estate was sold because then it released building land. Brookside Road and round there down Vicarage Lane, Musters Road there and the Churchill Drive estate…they came after the Paget Estate was……..
When that sale was on there I worked down Distillery Street at a Farm down there then. I’d left Cripwells. I went to Jim Howard. He left here in 1947 Jim did and finished up with about 5 or 6 landlords and he happened to go into Newark market one day and met an old chap who’d got 5 farms out at Retford……He got talking and said ‘You can have one of mine’ so it was all done in a hurry. And if these people wanted 12 months notice of who Landlord was and everything I was going to stop and look after this while they went there but it all got settled and I went up to Rosemoor Farm and stayed a few weeks while he got settled with some men. His lads are still up there farming – his 2 lads.
Now let’s come back. These are quite small fields by today’s standards? They were about 2 or 3 acres?
No a bit more than that. Because of course when Strawson came he pulled all the hedges up.
Yes, all the hedges except there’s one here that’s still there. You must know the one hedge that’s at the far end? I think it’s probably that one or this one here. As you go round the edge of Country Park here, there’s another gate at the back end there coming in that way, well between there………there is one hedge along there. I think that is on the enclosure Map of 1767. I think that is a very old hedge.
Right on the top isn’t it where the burning ground used to be?
Yes.
The land that’s been reclaimed. That’s where the road used to go – by that hedge to that Farm.
That’s right. There you are.
Used to come up by Lovers Lane then it used to turn across onto there and down the side of that hedge and that was the footpath as well.
Now that footpath went to Bradmore?
No, that one went to Bunny. The other one Gibbys field that went to Bradmore.
Yes, there ……. one came out of Elms Park down there and that one went to Bradmore?
Yes, that went to Bradmore and this other one went to Bradmore.
Across the middle?
You can still walk that one right round the back.
Yes, you can, and I’ve been able to walk it….
That’s the one……….
It used to ….. the field….2/3 years ago they tried to get it back didn’t they?
Did they?
It goes at the side of the hedge now right up to the corner along the top of Donkey Lane.
That’s it. That’s it.
Now what I’m interested in is this one here off Asher Lane and you came down the track to Moor End Farm. Now Ken when I talked to you in the Library you mentioned a track to East Leake. Was that the one?
No. Not that one. There’s another footpath here look. That’s the one to East Leake.
Goes to …Bunny first?
No it goes into the middle of the Farm. What’s this other farm here after Moor End Farm?
Moor Farm.
It went to Moor Farm.
That’s the one Ken.
As Moor Farm stood here it went diagonal to that what was a track for the farmer to use for………and then across to East Leake down to Bunny.
So this one is to Bunny and East Leake? Because that is very important. So it’s not to Bunny, it’s to East Leake?
Well you have to turn…..
You meet another footpath to Bunny actually and turn left.
I know, down by the stream.
This one that we’ve just been on about that goes into Moor Farm used to go into Moor Farm stack yard and then there were 3 long fields, Long Fen, 40 acre and a big one that comes to the back of the wood. Used to go so far down then across the 40 acre onto the horse road what’s there now from the corner of the wood where the poplar trees are now down to the brook then across a little field like that and then straight down to the bottom and that one used to go to Leake. This one used to come along through the bottom of the ...But that’s all been pulled down. There was a right rammle about that wasn’t there?
What I’m interested in I’ll tell you why because eventually when you go round the park there are information posts to tell people about what happened there and what was there at various times in history. Now I think this one is important because, you know, in the 17th Century when they had a Civil War and Nottingham Castle was held for Parliament by John Hutchinson, the Parliamentary supply route to London used to come up over Cotes Bridge through East Leake and up through Ruddington because they couldn’t go to Bunny or to Clifton because they were Royalist held. They came through the middle. Now for years I have wondered where this route…. . And I think this route through East Leake…We know they came through East Leake because once they made a… there ...ammunition there ...and 3 people were killed and they are buried in East Leake Church Yard. So I think mid 17th Century when the Civil War was on you’d come at night with packhorses… with ammunition.
The track from in between Moor Farm and Long Farm, Long Manor Farm it’s called now where the wood is, somewhere here used to be 2 poplar trees but one blew down. Then you used to go down the track from the corner of the wood right down to ...Part of the way down there’s a road across which comes round and up to the top of Bradmore Hill – Donkey Lane – that’s the road there.
Yes, I know. So that’s very good. Now we’ve talked about the size of the fields. Some of them, as you say, are quite big?
There were some good uns some 30 - 40 acre fields
Yes, and it was good land and they did produce roots and grain. I’m just summarizing, I’m getting it right.
It was fully farmed as far as potatoes and roots.
Because that’s interesting because in general in the 1930’s agriculture was depressed, it was one of the times when land was left vacant and not used especially if it was marginal land and I have wondered whether that was the case here. Now why did the Ministry of Defence buy it? Was it, one explanation would have been that it was marginal land and neglected and nobody wanted it. So they picked it up cheap. There would be a reason - that it was near the railway and communications were there and so on but as far as we know the land was not for sale before the war. Did they requisition it, I wonder?
Obviously did.
They actually put a clause on it in about 1938……in case……
Now tell me about this, this is what I’ve heard this.
They didn’t start construction until 1940’s.
Now tell me about this construction? Where did they begin building? What bit was done first?
Well the first thing they did when they started - now this here brook that we were on about what runs across the allotments from Asher Lane. They started there and put 2 pipes in right across. Two about 36” pipes right across. That was the first job they did.
Thank you.
Right from there they put the 2-boot trench…… side by side right across to the far side up to Beeby’s land……..Bradmore.
And then what came next?
Then they just started the full construction up there and down there and all over the place actually.
The whole site being developed? When did the fence go up?
The fence?
Did they put that in to start with or did they do a lot of the construction first?
A lot of construction work first.
It must have been, was it Irish Labourers?
Oh yes.
Danny.
Danny came in from Stafford 1941- April 14th .He was working
for Mowlems. When he was on site on the Thursday he was told he was being
transferred to Ruddington and he says you’ve to get here by 4.00 o’clock
for your wages and he just made it.
(Laughter)
Who did he marry?
Goddard.
Great bloke wasn’t he Danny?
I can remember walking across the fields one day Jack and we saw all these ...obviously where different buildings were going and wondered what it was at the time because nobody had said anything about the land being purchased.
This was all secret?
Oh yes.
Asher Lane was completed in March 1941. Concrete. It was only a track like the top bit, you know the top bit from …….. that goes by Ward’s Farm now that’s all that was right down to the village.
I see. It wasn’t tarmac then?
No.
It's done in these concrete sections?
It’s stood up well that road has.
It has, it’s just the joints between them.
...they didn’t bother there was plenty of stuff about they carted tons and tons of pit ‘slag’ red slag you know, red stuff that came out of the pits, tons and tons of that. Lorries coming every day, load after load after load.
What do you call it ‘pit slag’?
Pit slag, pit slag. Lot of it came from top of Kimberley. There were two great big heaps up there. All they were brought in.
A question for Ken. You told me about the hangar and the aircraft that was kept there. Now, where was that, can you pinpoint that for me?
It was the side of Lovers Lane wasn’t it? I think it was either that field, or that field Jack. That’s the one to East Leake isn’t it?
That’s Lovers Lane isn’t it?
Well it wasn’t that one, it was this one, this field. Yes, That’s it, that field.
… Harold Ashworth
Harold Ashworth? Hanger…
You can remember the type of plane can’t you?
Oh, oh!
Two wings, like a tiger moth type of plane.
And what date was this?
Well it was still there when they took the site.
In 1938 it could have been a Tiger Moth.
If you saw a photograph of it would you recognize it?
Possibly, yes.
My husband is interested in old aircraft and he’s got a tremendous number of…
His parents lived on Loughborough Road. Captain Ashworth and Major Ashworth – one lived in one….and one lived……… Did you know Lipmans, …was that Machin lived there? My granddad used to be a gardener there. They had a big walled garden at the back.
My dad used to…
My old granddad Bates he used to be at Ruddington Hall, with the Lady Forman Hardy.
Now, listen. Let’s go back to the War. The site was constructed and it had a fence put round and was secured. When did it actually begin to operate? Asher Lane was completed in about 1941.
It would be, it wouldn’t be long there was no messing about in them days they got on with it. It would easy be in production within 2 years.
So it was 1940-1941?
I can’t really answer that one.
It would be somewhere around ‘42.
Now, every day they were filling shells and so they must have brought in explosives and cases filled them on site, then they obviously stored them in the magazines in bunkers.
Yes, big bunkers round the bottom.
Where your lake is now.
Yes, I know where that is, we’ve got this thing and we’ve superimposed one upon the other so we can now do that but these are the……….area?
Yes, yes, that’s the area. That’s the way into them isn’t it. That’s the road down into them. There were big 6’ concrete walls went right down into the ground you know.
Yes. I’ll show you where they demolished them. There they were, look and there they had to dynamite them. So they were the bunkers where, were they shells or were they………….?
Don’t know, can’t answer that one.
The one thing I haven’t found is anybody who worked there.
Train used to come in three times a day for workers, 6.0 o’clock, 2.00 o’clock, 10.00 o’clock. When they changed the shifts.
Shift working? Yes, and how many people came in – a whole train load?
Oh, whole train load, 5 or 6 coaches every day. Yes, yes. Saturday and Sunday. You know where the train’s running now that’s… they were coming from Loughborough and Nottingham then. This line was still open then… the Nottingham... that’s all been filled in ...A lot of people came from the other side of town, Ilkeston, that way, Mansfield. When the train used to start from Basford Street North didn’t they somewhere up there. Yes, it used to come in 3 times a day.
Now besides bringing the workers in they must have brought supplies?
Oh they brought………
And they took out the ammunition?
The same way.
And that must have been a very dangerous job to do, explosive materials like that but at the end of the day….. there were trains……but every day there must have been trains going in and out all day long.
Yes, all day long. The kiosk they use now, that was the weighbridge for weighing the trucks.
And you see in these bunkers here, they were surrounded by the railway…….there was a rectangle round everyone.
In fact, the railway used to go into the bunkers.
Every one into the bunkers so they could shunt in a truck and so when you were loading, at least that was fairly safe?
Oh yes, oh yes.
And then they would join up the trucks and take them out?
That new laid pond that you’ve dug up at the far side, I was a bit surprised that you didn’t dig it out when it was dry in the summer time.
Yes, well beggars can’t be choosers!
I went round there, I go round there a lot.
Did you see the clogging of the wheels?
Yes, yes.
Well….it was the grass. We were glad about that. We were worried about filling it and its cost, the charge we got for filling it was £250 and we thought we’d have to pay that but it filled itself.
There was always a lot of water stood there wasn’t there?
That’s why we chose it. We wanted it……
Brilliant idea.
And, so we had it done. But we were given a grant of £2000 to do it but the Agency were closing in April and all the work had got to be done and paid for and finished by April. So we had no choice really, but it was a horrible job. But it’s looking nice. We couldn’t move the clay that came out that was going to be moved because, well you saw the ruts it was making. So they put it in that bank but that bank’s grassing over.
Oh, yes, it will grass over, won’t take long.
Of course, then it flooded right across. But you can tell that……….there was……
That was grass, there was grazing a lot of in that area.
But what troubles me is why did they choose that area to store the ammunition, was that deliberate, was that a big clanger? You hear about these bungles during the war, or was it, it may well be ….?
The same as the brickyard at Bunny, I dug that quarry out. I had big old wire rope diggers, not one of these hydraulic ones. A big one, 38, ton and I dug out that old clay quarry - biggest part of that quarry, brickyard.
We are greatly in your debt.
You know, going back a bit, when the Asher Lane was first opened that road …1941. It was Saturday night, I’d been somewhere and called at the White Horse (pub) because me Mam and Dad was there, and we went about 10.00 o’clock (which was closing time then) and it was the most beautiful night you’ve ever seen in your life. The sky was clear, you could read a book, but when me Dad had got to go across to the other Farm, not the one near the railway there. We’d got to go across there to feed 200-300 beef cattle in there. Big beef cattle man Mr. Cripwell was. We’d got to go over there and when me Dad opened the back door in the morning at 5.00 o’clock when we got up we had 5 foot of snow.
Oh, incredible.
We went up that lane there and there was a foot of snow and we used to have to pump all the water for the beasts out of the well then, in the yard. They put a water main up that old Asher Lane 1939 when they put the first water main up, we used to have to pour the water that the beasts had.
Now, what I would like to do Ivy, if you would go off and talk to the two men here. I’ll pop off and get Kenneth and see if he can find his reference book for the aircraft.
It was… He had a Harley Davidson motor bike ‘an all’ you know, young Harold. He was only just in his 20s when he got killed. He went in the air force, spitfire fighter pilot you know.
That’s interesting. Who was that then, was that someone who …?
That was the lad who had the aeroplane.
I think it was, it was a double winged one.
Yes, and how long was that there?
Oh, it was there for a long time, must have been right up to when they took the site.
So they took...
I Don’t know whether he used it right up to there whether….because….can’t ask Bill Machin now because he’s passed on… It was there when Machins… the field used to run up…
…that’s right ...It was ideal for taking off.
Is there anything on the photographs that brings memories back?
That’s part of the ...railway. Now a lot of this inside there, I used to plough it for them.
Did you?
And they used to grow stuff for the canteen.
So you actually ...so whereabouts would that be?
Possibly somewhere around there. I can’t…
You used to plough, and they used to grow their own vegetables and things like that? That’s very interesting.
A lot of this big piece inside, I used to go and plough them.
Used to plough for vegetables for the canteen?
In the site itself, when I worked for Phil Linekar
Where was the canteen? Can you show us?
There was a canteen …10f….canteen. That was just off The Green there.
That were for the people living in the living quarters. The other one, the big canteen inside the works that was a bit more that way, Ken, wasn’t it?
I don’t know that one Jack.
...top offices were ...somewhere.
So there were a couple of canteens then?
Yes, yes, there were two, yes. There was a social centre as
well. There was a club up there, on that far side up there, up there..
‘Greetings as Mr. Lawson joins the group’
Was it any one of those?
That’s the sequence in 1920 they got…….
That’s the type of thing it was though. I don’t think it was a Tiger Moth.
Probably one of the earlier ones?
Yes. Cessna Moth, where’s that? ...It might have been something like that… It’s a long while ago.
Well, thanks very much for trying anyhow.
So there were 2 canteens, I’m still looking?
Well, where Dungannon Road is now that’s more or less where the social centre was… dance hall.
…That was Dungannon Road up this end behind the Youth Club because there was a social club down the avenue, the other end. There was another one there as well.
Yes. The Avenue Club.
You know the social club within the depot, do you think people used to...
Yes. Victoria what was it called Avenue Club? Called The Avenue Club I think. I think it was called The Avenue Club and that was on the far side. When you come round the island and you come as if you’re going down there the road that leads across to that house there. There were 2 houses, 2 flat bungalows there wasn’t there?
Yes, they were flats.
And then they… this chap that’s there now.
George Miles, he lived there.
That’s right.
Well, the club used to be somewhere down here.
So we’ve 17 bungalows and 12 flats and 2 of the flats have been made into the social club?
That’s right.
So which would that be then a big one.
That was a big one.
Where would the other one be then?
More or less right at the back of the youth club now.
You see this has been built up in time so they were round here? So, that’s interesting that there were 2 domestic quarters as it were. You’ve told us an awful lot, it’s absolutely fascinating. The tape is going to run out very shortly , is there anything else?
The only one thing I wanted to …Jack may answer this. There was a powder factory we used to call it.
At Bradmore.
Now did ...go there.
I don’t know whether that was used there or not but that blew up didn’t it?
It blew up once or twice that did and some men got killed.
Tom Handley.
Mr. Lowe got killed as well.
Yes. Eric Lowe’s Dad and Tom Handley one of the painters and decorators’ lads old Tom he got killed.
That was a powder?
They were manufacturing gunpowder I suppose.
What did they call it, the powder?
The powder, the powder factory.
Where was that?
That was in Bradmore where - a bit further up than the Church. You know where that footpath goes to the far side that we talked about under the pylon if you carry on the ground rises a bit, slightly to the left. To the right of Bealby’s Farm then if I remember rightly there were 2 cottages there and it was between the two... I thought…
Now you mentioned… Have you finished your say? Yes you have. Because the other thing I was going to ask where was the Burning Ground?
That was right at the top they burnt the old cordite and stuff 4.00 o’clock every afternoon. It used to clean up a bit.
What colour was it?
Bright yellow.
...not very healthy?
Some of them people in there though they used to come out and their hands used to be yellow and their faces.
Canary bird. I don’t know whether they called them that in Ruddington?
Eileen Brown.
Eileen Brown was?
Yes, she worked for them.
I was going to say, the one thing we haven’t traced is anyone who actually…..
She’s still alive.
Where is she?
I can’t tell you where she lives.
She lives down Ling Crescent somewhere, in one of the flats.
What’s her name? Eileen Brown?
No that was her name, what’s her name now Jack?
Sands, Eileen Sands, Ling Crescent and she’s not in very good health.
No, but if someone who knew her can talk to her.
I tell you what, I’ll have to do Mrs. Lawson, I’ll have to nip round and find her and have a word with her and come back and let you know.
Oh, oh! See if you can find out.
She’s very very…
Take your time.
She could swear a bit like.
It doesn’t matter. I haven’t done this but I was so afraid that that generation had completely gone off because obviously the older…
There was quite a lot.
And I thought we were too late.
There was Pygall’s wife. She’s still alive. She lives just below me in the flats.
I’ve heard Pygall name.
He was – he wasn’t quite the chief of security was he……They came from Gotham didn’t they?
Yes, that’s right he was a security chap. Yes, I remember him now.
Who were that other one? Was it Pikewall?
Well, didn’t Peter Carter………as well?
Peter did a bit at one time.
Yes, he worked on…
There were a lot of blokes worked on there after it finished
what they were doing
There was quite a few from Keyworth an all…….. 2/3 women from
Gotham.
Good. Well I think that I’m going to say thank you very much.
I’ll nip round and have a word with Eileen.
Try to find out if you can, you must have the …
It’ll be all right I shall…
But anyhow it’s been a great pleasure talking to you. I hope you have enjoyed it too.
Yes
Yes
You’ve helped us very much with our enquiries.
Interviews > Interview with Ken Marriott and Jack Bagguley