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The 'Bombs to Butterflies' Interviews
Interviewee: Frank Kerry
Interviewers: Val Clark, Wesley Scarrott and Carole Walters
Date of Interview:
It was in fact, during restoration and planning with the National Coal Board that led me into the Land Reclamation when the Coal Board ‘contracted’ in 1966, that I got out.
Right, you have a list of questions Frank do you want to talk through them?
How did the idea of converting the Depot into a Country Park
Arise and was it part of a larger plan?
The Depot was down on a Country Council list of Derelict Sites; we began to
look at what it might be restored to. Obviously, everyone wanted it restored
to something ‘green’. By this time, the late 1980’s, the
idea of restoring to agricultural land was a non-starter – in the early
days when I started everyone wanted agricultural land. So. We did have the
idea of a Country Park, but it needed to ‘stack-up’ in the Department
of the Environment terms of “Value for Money”, I suppose these
days you would call it “Best Value”, and so we began to look at
what we might put with it. The first idea was for Housing Land and obviously
as we were doing this we were talking to the District Council and they were
very, very, very much against any housing development. So I did have the bright
idea ‘what about a Business Park’, something different to just
an industrial area and I had a daughter moving down South and one week we
went to stay with them and did a tour of the Business Parks down in Southern
England and ‘believe-you-me’ they are Business Parks. I came back
with the idea of having some highly landscaped business park and a country
park and we began to work on that.
During this period we were in fact talking to the land owners, at that time
it was the Property Services Agency – we were getting nowhere at all,
to be honest about it. They thought they had a right to have retail business
on it, we said we hadn’t and we did have somebody researching that for
a long, long time. We would have taken it to a Tribunal if necessary. Anyway,
this took a long time, then a person came from Chester, which was their MOD
Headquarters, and they had taken over the disposal of the sites and this gentleman
and I got along quite well together and he liked the idea of a Business Park,
which we would start, which would be County Council Land and they would have
something – err, a little over 30 acres to sell on as Business Park…
It has taken a few years to develop and continues to develop along with the
landscape. So the idea had to be sold to Rushcliffe Planning and they liked
and accepted the idea of a Business Park and a Country Park, we then began
to design this in more detail.
That took about 4 years. The Plan was reclaiming derelict land. Does that
answer your question?
Yes, thank you.
What were the first steps taken? (Refer to answer 1)
It all originated from my Office a lot of it was my idea and Dave’s,
who was the Reclamation Team Leader. There were some feasibility studies done,
we obviously had a lot of investigations, services etc and of course looking
to see for resurgence and looking for contamination. One thing researched,
we thought it we get our Country Park we ought to have a Lake, how would we
get some water? We employed a Hydrological Firm to do that for us, they discovered
that there was an underground culvert….
Gibby’s Dyke – I think it was…
and that never dried out, even in the most dry seasons, so we had the bright idea of making a lake, filling it with water (which we did), the Fire Brigade filled it for us – whoa! Severn Trent Water. Then we made, there was a fulcrum system which pumps water during the dry weather out of that dyke (or culvert, as it is) into the Lake to top it up and that is the only water which goes in – apart from the original water. So, it doesn’t have any water/stream flowing through. Well, that was one of the major searches. Also, we had contact with the Loughborough railway Enthusiasts and they fancied coming-in with something, which is now the Transport and Heritage Centre and we took that on board as well, we thought that was another interest to add to the Country Park. So there was the ideas and of course then we set the Staff on as this was all sketched out onto bits of paper. I was a Chartered Mineral Surveyor, but I had on my staff Engineers, Surveyors, Landscape Architects, Foresters, and Ecologists etc. They were all amalgamated together to produce this product. I think we started it in the late 80’s and work started in ’89, because I retired in 1992 and it was basically finished and it was opened in ’93 – of course you know that…
Yes… as Ruddington Country Park!
Yes, as Ruddington Country Park, which annoyed me. So, it took 4 years to staff and 2-3 years to build. So the aim of the project was to build a Country Park, which was a viable Country Park, which could be used by the general public as a pleasant area to walk and be in. Of course, as you might appreciate it was all bare. We realised also that we, basically it was flat, needed to put some shape to it. So we decided that all the rubble, and there were masses of it, we would bury it in mounds and that would create the shape, that’s why there is the embankment in front of the houses……..
ahhh, uhhhhhm, oh
and that was done by excavating sand out up from the lake and then covering it up with soil – perhaps a metre up where all that gorse area is there wasn’t really a lot. There were actually 110 buildings on there, many of them concrete and masked brick, where they stored explosives, etc, just buildings with the prefabricated tops on, a bit like the ones that are left for the railway.
Was it another department that organised for the buildings to be demolished?
Oh no! We did that. It was there as the MOD left it.
What happened to the bunkers?
The bunkers. There weren’t any bunkers as such, which are holes in the ground. What happened was that the buildings that stored explosives had mounds of soil around them so they looked like bunkers, but they weren’t.
that was part of the rubble that was used for the…
yeah, I mean the reclamation was to get rid of the “eyesores” basically and that was all the bunkers etc.
Was there public consultation at any stage?
Yes, there was. We had a lot of consultation with the District Council who had to give us Planning Permission at some stage, but we did have consultation in the village… do you remember we had an exhibition?
Yes, yes.
With rather fancy displays. It was the first time we had had a firm do it for us. That was, I don’t know, a couple of weeks or so…don’t know…..
I can’t remember how long.
No, I can’t remember, I remember being here (Ruddington………………) a lot of times
certainly consulted the Parish Council, because their initial response was that it should be restored to agriculture, rather negative, but there we are…
Yes, you are quite right of course, agriculture was not wanted, and so that’s how it was sold to the Council. One of the problems was, my colleagues in the Highways Department, didn’t like the idea of this highly landscaped road and the coloured pavements and brick pavements – but eventually I talked them around to it – and I must confess it’s gone quite well.
acknowledge agreement
So there really was no opposition at that time when we had done that and solved the problem of ‘housing’ was not on ‘Business Park’ was liked. I was actually told that this was the best Business Park in Nottinghamshire, highly landscaped.
Who actually designed the Country Park?
Well I’ve dealt with that – haven’t I?
You mentioned Mike Dale?
Well, the, design was a mixture of, I had a Reclamation Team who were the Engineers actually and I had a Landscape Team and a Countryside Team. The Landscape Planners obviously the Countryside Team was a mixed bag of people of Foresters,……..and soil scientists as well.
So it was a joint effort?
Yes, well to be honest we amalgamated everybody, it started with Mike Dale and I scribbling it on a piece of paper… something like this..
Yes, so you gave them a basic outline and they developed the idea.
Yes, it takes a lot of time to do the calculation of course.
I can remember one of your first consultations you came down to me and said “what do you think of this?” laughter
Yes, that’s right and these things are quite exciting really particularly when you get to the end product quite honestly. We find all sorts of things, one of the things we found was that there was an oil line running through it!
A natural or a piped line?
No, a piped oil line, yes, yes (indicating on the map) across there.
Yes, it starts here and goes across the road somewhere here and cuts across this corner here, you can see that the markers are there at the road side (near Mill Fields).
Is this for the Depot?
I don’t know where it goes to, or where it comes from.
Maybe the oil depot, its pumped oil, which is pertinent insofar as you mentioned the culvert that you filled the lake from, before the Depot was built that was a stream and the stream is still there though it has been diverted (indicating on the map).
and, and it was a big culvert actually, you could actually walk in it, doubled, you know it wasn’t a small thing.
& No! No, uhhm.
That was a wonderful find, quite honestly, I don’t know
what we would have done about the Lake without it, we would have probably
have to have abandoned it actually. Last time I walked around I complained
about it because the Lake hadn’t been topped-up frankly Peter Chalmers
hadn’t told them. That was something else, right from the word go we
did in fact – I think you’ve asked that question further down
- Rushcliffe wouldn’t take it over and the then director of Leisure
was Peter Chalmers, he was very much like that and he was a tremendous help
– we got on well together, and we’ve got on well together ever
since – he’s now left but he got involved with……...(muttered)……..
So where am I now?
Err number 8 aren’t you, you’ve talked about demolition.
Did we say that the Team planned the demolition – when I say Team I mean the group.
Moving onto numbers 8 and 9 were there any problems during the demolition?
Yes, there were. The day we started – and I think it was a Friday – down at this end somewhere………
Mr Kerry is point to the Southeast corner.
That used to be the Depot’s Boss’s house and the man living in it used to be Clerk of Works for the Council – but anyway, when we started, we started and erm, the telephones went mad, I had the er man from err Wollaton Hall ring me and numerous other people that some Bats. This man had seen some bats flying out of the buildings…
Oh yeah, Bats.
They were going to serve an injunction on us to stop us, oh
it was a riot. Just imagine this, all day Saturday and Sunday, sort of thing,
my phone was hot and you know you have to be nice at the same time (mutters
something)………..
Anyway, as it happened the Ecologists knew a Bat specialist, Dr somebody,
and funnily enough he was unavailable, so on the Monday she got in touch with
this chappie and he came up that week. He didn’t come up immediately
as he was holidaying on the Norfolk Broads somewhere. He was a bat specialist
and we toured all these buildings and he wrote a Report to say that whilst
there were one or two bats there wasn’t a bat colony. But what he did
suggest was that we should try and build in a bat Hibernaculum so that we
could try to attract them back. So, somewhere up here (indicating on the map)
we put this underground pipe in. We managed to get this cheap off Stanton
works, they more or less gave it to us, and we built these pipes in at the
right gradient so that moisture came in, and volunteers built rough brick-work
in it and we put a gate up. After we grassed it over they were getting too
much water in and…
it flooded.
Yes, and we had to put some drains in to take the water away. But the idea was good and I understand some bats are now in it.
Yes.
So that came out of that problem, and of course it makes a good story actually and that was really the main problem we had on the site.
No hidden explosives or anything like that?
No, I think we found one or two areas where rubble had been buried. No we didn’t find anything at all – it had been cleared. Of course it had been used for vehicles for a long time, for the sale of scrap vehicles.
One shudders at the thought of erm, you say scrap.
No, no, not to my knowledge. The site round there (pointing on the map) was 284 acres. Of course in the design, basically, it was a two-part operation, the demolition and construction. Obviously the first part was the demolition and in the demolition terms of course you do all the earthworks, we then had to put footpaths in and they were designed as they are, there are five and a half miles of footpaths and we had to work out the landscaping. We wanted to make it as natural as possible, you will notice as you enter the road (of the Business Park) we’ve got conservation niches of flowers etc., low maintenance etc. and they look very pretty. We’ve also put some conservation mix in down that slip grass etc. and we had it split into low and high maintenance. High maintenance is for hard work, low maintenance for the lesser work. The trees, you’ve got these nice landscaped shrubs etc in the landscaped areas and we tried to make it naturalised at the end of the day. There is a big mixture of trees, there’s Oak, Ash, Sweet Chestnut, Larch, Pine native shrubs like privet, hawthorn, dogwood, gelder rose.
Was there a conscious decision to make them indigenous to Britain.
Yes, yes it was, very much so. There’s quite a lot of stuff on here, which tells you (handing me 2 pages of written text on orange sheets), somebody wrote this in 1990.
Could we have photocopies of that before you go?
We had an overall budget for land reclamation and I can’t remember what it was per annum, I know it was so many millions and each project had a value of it’s own and this in fact cost £3.5 million.
The whole thing?
Yes. We had approximately 2 - 3 million grant from the government. Fortunately the people at the Department of the Environment in London thought this was just the “bees knees” actually and we did get quite a lot of extra money. For instance up the main road into the site, originally there was a road in and there was an avenue of Norway Maple trees, 60 of them and we had the bright idea of wondering if we could move them. So I got the Forestry Officer in and we decided that we might be successful and I got permission to do it. It cost just over £500 per tree….. and we moved all these trees and put them onto a low-loader and they are planted around the business park and we didn’t loose one. One day we had a lot of visitors from the Ministry and I said, “see those trees, they are 30 years old and they have been transplanted, and we haven’t lost one. It cost £30,000 and we didn’t get any grant for that”. A fortnight later we had a letter giving 50% grant.
For those trees; yet even with the grant and everything the whole lot still cost £3.5million.
£3.5 million of which the principle cost to the County Council was of course putting the road in et cetra were not grant aided. Some of the bigger trees were put-in, there were quite a lot of heavy standard trees put in (point on the map – indicating areas), these were all forest transfers.
We had a village planting day of trees as I remember, erm…
Yes, we did well actually, yes I remember that actually erm, so that was that. I still don’t know who JM was (referring to the sheets of text). I think it was Janet Mellors, she went to South Chesterton I think.
Did any of the contractors go bust or not?
No, no. I can’t remember the name of the main contractors I’d have to look at the slides, it will be on the Plan’s. There were other contractors.
What modifications have we made since?
Well, of course, Rushcliffe have built a nice Play Area and they have built the centre (Transport and Heritage Centre).
Are you aware that there is going to be an Educational Centre there as well? Which is part of the project.
It does lend itself to development, very nicely.
The Children’s Play Area is very popular, very, very popular.
And of course we have this railway enthusiast centre, we left some buildings which were steel clad and we mentioned that to the boss of the Dept of Environment one day, erm, “look at those tatty buildings that we were leaving for the railway people” and he actually said “do them up we’ll give you a grant for them as well”. Now that was against the rules in point of fact, heh, heh. I used to go down to the corridors of power in London, quite often actually.
What was their involvement?
Well they were in control of the grants. When I first started we used to do grants at the Regional Offices and it then changed to direct from central government, and there was a Senior Officer down there who we used to meet, so you got to know the people you were dealing with in person.
Were you aware of, at that time, similar projects.
Well, yes, we had more than this going on at the time, there were projects in Derbyshire, Northumberland, Lancashire all over the country, getting rid of mines principally.
Ranskill had been completed.
Ranskill, yes. North of the county, that was the biggest site, that was over 700 acres. That was the site where they actually made explosives during the war and they used to ……. 3000 deep, that was a little bit more difficult there were some big bunkers in that. We restored that principally to agriculture and we used a lot of soil, but there is again a small country park and a nature reserve and also built in a refuse tip.
We’re lucky laughing.
But that was a massive site, I must go up sometime to see if it is still working, we did have a lot of soil there, there were mounds of soil.
Did you have to bring soil in?
No, we didn’t actually, you see, if you’re putting conservation areas down you don’t want good quality soil, you want soil with not much nutrient in, so we had plenty of soil. Areas, green areas, were all stripped before we started, filled with soil and of course the sub-soil was bad and when we did the lake that was covered with a big mound here (pointing to the map) and there’s one up there also. So that solved that. It’s funny talking about Ranskill going off the subject a bit, when we took Ranskill over it just looked as if the MOD had just said “out lads”. There was even in the Workshop the Manuals left open on the desk. And there was a nitric acid plant built during the Korean Wat by the American government and it had never ever been activated, it was all polished.
I am intrigued as to how Ministry of Defence land came into the category of reclaiming of mining land.
Well it wasn’t. Initially, the whole thing started because of the down turn of mining and obviously in Staffordshire, Lancashire, Northumberland, Durham and Derbyshire, Nottinghamshire and South Wales all of them, the government, we’re going back into the ‘60s recognised the land needed to be cleared and of course there were more than mining “eyesores” and they started giving grants, 50% grants and up to 100% grants. So, the various authorities started setting up Land Reclamation Teams, that’s how I got into it because it all started in Derbyshire about the same time. There was already one just started a year before in Derbyshire and there was one going in Lancashire for a little bit longer in fact. The idea was to clear derelict land, well mining was one side of course, but we’ve got the MOD sites as well, and there were some very heavily contaminated sites like gas works.
Was this site contaminated?
No, it wasn’t. The worst contamination I found in Nottinghamshire was on a small site on the edge of a railway in Mansfield, which had been involved in a creosote factory and it was heavily contaminated with a lot of phenols buried and we had to dig those up – it was a very expensive procedure – now a housing development I understand. It started with a 50% grant, then it got to be 100% of grant and expenditure.
Was there any European Funding?
OK, absolutely, yes. It is much more complicated now, before SRB’s we did a lot of work in Mansfield, Leicestershire etc. In the NE I did a quarry on the Roman Wall, where granite had been taken out from underneath the wall and that was made into an eclopme, added a toilet and that’s become a visitor centre for the wall (Hadrian’s Wall), so it did vary, we did bridges – thee was a lot of variation.
To get back to the questions, anything else we need to look at apart from question 14.
The Country Park is very popular with visitors and extremely rich in wildlife are you pleased with the results?
Well quite honestly, exceptionally pleased actually, it’s one of those things that has been successful, the Business Park and the Railway and the Country Park and another thin is how well it is being managed by Rushcliffe – there was always a worry about these things you know – and I’ve no regrets about it at all, you know with the changes in hindsight, mainly just to tweak things into order. I am very happy a lot of people still congratulate me on it.
Apart from what you have already mentioned, is there any further source of funding?
Not to my knowledge, no, this part (indicating on the map) here, the road we put in there, the first business was NSK-RHP were building their bit before we had finished. They built a pine building, then we had that office block opposite and that actually utilised all of our 15 acres (13.22 acres) and this part was left to the Ministry of Defence. We actually bought it for a Peppercorn on the understanding that they had that (Business Park) to sell.
Was it the Borough Council who sold that?
No, we flattened this and that was left for the Ministry of Defence to actually make money off by selling it off – I don’t know who was responsible for developing it. That’s where they were making their little bit of money.
And, Rushcliffe made their money out of this!?
No, that was the County Council. The money we sold that for was actually sent back to the Department of the Environment as part of the exercise.
It helped to off set the cost of the project?
Yes, exactly. The first plot was sold for £100,000.
Worth a lot more now!
Well, I thought it was worth a lot more then. It’s a
means to an end – you’ve got to oil the wheels somehow.
(discussion on NSK – Japanese company’s headquarters now moving
elsewhere, building won an award).
The other feature which I was thought was top-notch was this section here
(the A60 trunk road entrance at the round about), this entrance, the landscaping
here was magnificent.
Have you got any more questions Carole?
You mentioned central governments involvement with land reclamation and setting up of these projects, was the intention to set them up as business Parks a side issue.
There are two things really, first of all derelict land was usually owned not by government, a lot was owned by the National Coal Board or even the Lords, you know the Dukes – a lot of the mining land was leased to the Coal Board and one had to sort of negotiate by the land and the land purchase was part of the cost of doing the job, which the government was grant aiding. Initially we reclaimed the land, and eventually they came up with the idea of having value for money. Value for money was not that we had got to make a profit, unlike Best Value, it was judgemental rather than Mechanistic, so when we started and we were negotiating with the Ministry of Defence – another chappie from London, we came to this arrangement of buying it for a Peppercorn and we would supply them an area of land which they could sell to build on, so that wasn’t ever in fact bought – we just agreed to loan it and put buildings on it.
Pointing to Ministry of Defence land.
and they sold that on and that’s how they’ve made some money for this vast area of land, and this part, Nottinghamshire County Council, we actually own that – all we had to do was send the proceeds of that back to off-set the money we would have from the government. But at the end of the day £3.5million was put in by Notts. County Council.
Was that unique to this are or this particular project?
It was unique to this for the MOD, when we did Ranskill we bought that and that cost £785,000. We restored that to farmland mainly, with a refuse tip, there was no industrial housing. In a sense the refuse tip had no value in a way – that was more from the MOD.
Did other councils see RCP as a good idea to do themselves?
No, I don’t think so, I don’t know of any, but of course I’ve retired – but there have been other Country Parks built in other parts of the country and Business Parks – Industrial areas which are the same as Country Parks. The idea is the same, the idea of a Business Park is that you go for better quality buildings and higher technical use. You want a Park rather than an Industrial site. In many Industrial sites these are added to. I mean err, going back to……… Ashington was a very big mining area – I started that off and when I went back a few years later it was Queen Elizabeth Country Park, I put the lake in, whoever followed me finished it all of, so to speak, there is even a hotel built on it, so we have done that. When you are reclaiming land you have to decide what is the best ‘end use’. It depends where it is, of course, people do not want houses everywhere or industry. Like the first project I was involved with, in the north east, it became a nature reserve actually – and still is. So, it does vary. More recently after mining had collapsed altogether, the pit heap’s like Cotgrave and one or two others, they were actually given to the County Council and some money to restore them – and you will find that Cotgrave is a Country Park. It has not been heavily shaped like this one, still a pity really. So there’s quite a few of those throughout the country really.
So, there was no major plan, like in the Victorian times when they built urban parks to improve the health of the people…
These were typically reclaimed land, yes. The whole emphasis was on reclaiming derelict land and eyesores to sole beneficial use. In the early days everyone clamoured for agricultural land, like that one there look (Northumberland), that’s a pity its agricultural land now for you cannot plough it – it’s only pasture land. Take that one, Walbolt(?), is just the same – you can only lightly cultivate it because the soil on it is only very thin. In many projects in the north east we planted many things into the coal and shale, trees, that was experimental at the time, erm, to find out how to do that. We grassed the coal and shale and then we put trees in and discovered what trees would grow in shale – when you go back to the north east now these are actually forest. We planted half a million trees a year and it was successful. One of the problems was compaction after wheeling heavy machines around and we started putting a ripper through and planted the trees just low side of the rip, that collected water and broke the compaction and learned what species would grow. With practice and University (Nottingham University) did both in Durham and Nottingham – so we learn’t.
Can I just take you back to the Country Park, it has a lease doesn’t it or is it completely owned?
The land was bought by the County Council, I don’t know what arrangement they have made with Rushcliffe – but it is owned by the authority. I think we gave it to Rushcliffe. One thing we did as well was we extended the playing fields for Ruddington to there
But we keep quiet about that – laughing and discussion…
Can I ask you what you think of the projects done at the Country Park?
Well, I think they are doing very well actually and what surprises me, and I’ve been down with my grandchildren many times, is how much it is used. The use of it is unbelieveable…
Well I gather it is being overused at the moment, they’ve got a problem with the number of people that go because the car parks are full at week ends and they are getting too many people on there for what it is. But it is very popular.
Who designed the car park, did you?
Yes, that was designed in-house, the whole thing was designed by my group. It is quite pleasant that car park. That was an innovation as well.
It’s lovely to look at, do you know they have had problems with it? Security, they have paid out £21,000 for security there.
I can image that, but that’s not a problem, you’ve got that everywhere at the moment (joy riders and youths stealing cars).
They could employ someone full time for that amount!
That’s a universal, cultural problem, these yobbo’s are doing all these things.
It’s the same with the vandalism on the Heritage Centre, smashing bus windows etc.
So, if it was to change, how would you like to see it change?
The car park! You can’t change the car park, you’ve got to have parking, I mean you could take the trees out. Remove the hiding places, that would make it improved.
You’ve got another vast area of tarmac again.
That spoils you landscaping again, doesn’t it.?
I don’t think it would prevent people from vandalising – it’s just the times were are living in. I mean, it’s a wonder they are not chopping the trees down.
That is one thing, the vandalism from the actual trees and shrubs is negligible as far as I can see.
Except when the children’s play area got burned-down.
We get it in Bingham, an enormous amount.
But not the actual trees.
They are too far out for the lazy vandals to get to.
I discovered a long time ago that we used to plant trees on colliery sites as part of an exercise, and everyone was broken just before this thing (meeting) and we discovered that if you didn’t put them in rows they lasted much longer – the vandals were too lazy to go from one to the other – it’s true that – don’t plant them in rows. It’s strange isn’t it? Another little point of course is that the lake was lined with a butyle type material, from Germany…
It came from Hamburg
That’s right and that lining cost £100,000.
It’s worth it though because I think that’s the central point of the park.
Was anything else introduced in the form of err wildlife, say?
No, not to my knowledge I think they come naturally. Eventually as the trees grow, there will be more wildlife, won’t there. There are some more bats, owls, Rushcliffe Owl Association have got a project.
I think 50 years time, when the trees have matured
Possibly. We are talking of in about 10 years. I remember all the lot of the wooded area were one plus ones.
What do you think of the more modern day projects, like the Major Oak tree clones, that have been planted in the Park?
My staff used to collect the acorns from the Oak in Sherwood and they would grow them on. That’s a good idea actually yes, I think I like that.
There are a lot of little projects going on at the Park, that you don’t really notice to start with and then when you look closer…
Yes, I know, the last time I went down, there was somebody digging a hole, down this side (point to the map)…
That’s a pond, a natural spring there.
Is that what it is. I think that’s all, that’s when we started it, and it develops over time.
I think that’s where the Friends of the Country Park come in, isn’t it, they are there….
Was that part of the original plan, that the local people would eventually be involved.
Well, not my plan, it was up to Rushcliffe when they took it on, it was obviously an asset. A similar project in Bingham, a railway track and they are now going to make that into an information centre. John Wade looked after that – he’s still there (in office at Nottinghamshire County Council).
Well the railway is included on this site, it is a nature reserve in itself, it encourages the wildlife reserve anyway.
Designed to Ranskill status, which was the first we did, a long time ago.
If I was to look for similar projects within the County, who would I ask for?
The countryside Group in the Environment Department or Forestry Section. Or Gareth Broom.
Interviews > Interview with Frank Kerry