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The 'Bombs to Butterflies' Interviews
Interviewee: Eileen Selby
Interviewers: Ann Hughes and Mary Dove
Date of Interview: 14.12.01
Now Eileen, can you tell us about when you started, how did you get the job to begin with?
I was 17, and working at Boots and realised with the war on
I would have to start and sort my life out. So the Depot was being erected
on the old Elms Fields belonging to the Peacocks. So I used to go up there
on a Saturday morning round the different contractors but couldn't find anyone
to contact.
And then a chance came along just talking to someone and they said “Oh,
you want to go to a certain office Sir Alexander Gibb, they're looking for
office staff".
So off I went and got myself a job. I stayed with Sir Alexander Gibb, they
were the main contractors consulting engineers for the whole Depot.
You stayed for the what, a year?
A whole year and there were Lovatts and John Mowlems and there were lots and lots of different firms subcontracted out to these big main ones. Quite a nice happy year and then the Depot was nearing completion and once again what am I going to do with my life, where am I going to be sent to. Coming up to 18, I could have been sent to Timbuktoo. And once again someone on the staff said "Why don't you go up to the Ministry of Supply?" This was on the Perimeter Road, looking over to Bradmore. I didn't know anything about this building at all. So off I go again.
So having got, you went for a second interview then for a job at the Depot?
Yes.
And that would have been in what 1941?
'42.
'42 by this time.
Yes. I went to Sir Alexander Gibb in 1941. And I started with the Ministry of Supply in 1942. Yes.
And you worked in the offices there doing what sort of thing?
Typing all the time, and then we had a very close friend of mine was the teleprinter operator and she was asked if she could recommend another person in the office to learn this job and I was put forward on that and I took to it like a duck to water and we had the chance eventually of passing an exam. And we received the princely sum of ten shillings a week and we were told at the time and I was going to night school for shorthand that they would not entertain paying us for shorthand duties. We were typists full stop. So when this ten shillings came along I thought I was better off than being a shorthand typist. So they started me on to a good thing being a typist and a teleprinter operator combined with working the switchboard as well.
There would just be two of you doing teleprinting is that right?
Yes
Just two of you
Yes
And how many of you in the office altogether?
I would say 10.
Ten.
Did you have to wear special clothes?
No we were issued with special shoes because of the metal. We had to have everything metal free.
So your shoes were rubber?
Yes. And leather tops and we had the convict arrow on the front. (Laughter) Which caused quite a lot of fun but we took the stitching out and blacked them over. (Laughter)
What hours did you work in the office?
8 in the morning till it could be 7 at night.
Did you ever work any overtime?
Oh yes, there was overtime in that, most nights till 7, Saturdays till 5. If we worked a Sunday that would be 8 till 5.
What rates did you get for overtime? Did you get overtime extra pay?
Yes, it was all done very correctly on our time sheet, clocking in and clocking out and if you were late you got stopped of course a 1/4 hour. So someone friendly in the office would see you coming down the building and they would be there ready to ping your card for you which could save many a shilling at that time. (Laughter)
And did you meet people from other areas?
Yes. Oh not other offices. No, no. We were completely on our own. Completely.
So you were virtually a separate entity to a certain extent?
Definitely.
Yes
Yes we had nothing whatever to do with the co-operative, nothing at all.
No
There were 2 buildings. I can't remember the number, because every building had a number. We were 8D 25 and in between it was what was called it was a small building it was called a shift house and that's what it was. It was for people changing over on shifts. But we were only allowed to go in there for anyone smoking. We had a break morning and afternoon. And that was the only place that people could smoke. And we had a big urn in there and you went and helped yourself to tea morning and afternoon.
And most of the people that you worked with, were they local?
Some were. Some came from Nottingham but no further. By bus. There was a special bus came to the Depot at this time.
And did they approach it from the Loughborough Road side or the Elms Park side?
Loughborough Road. It used to come into the car park there.
And so did you eat in the canteen? Did you have lunch in the canteen or did you go home for lunch?
I went home for lunch. You would take something, you would always bring something for a bit of lunch in the morning.
Snack.
Half past 10 time you would have something. You were hungry by this time.
Yes of course you were.
Yes, yes hungry. But you went home for lunch.
And you cycled you say.
Yes, all the time. In frost, snow, fog everything.
Have you got the map? You said that when you went in in the morning you had to go through various checks. Is that right?
Yes that's right. And coming out again. You always had to show your pass each time.
Yes.
And often you knew the patrolman on duty, he'd known you all
your life, but you still had to show your pass. And on the last gate before
you went into, it was called a clean side and a dirty side. If you were on
the dirty side that meant you were outside the bomb making but the clean side
was where the bombs were being actually made. But we were’nt anywhere
near to them.
And you were sometimes searched spasmodically to see if you had a nail file
or anything sharp on you and you were asked questions.
And you said that you didn't deal with any of the wages or anything?
No they all came from Roundhay at Leeds.
That was the headquarters was it?
Yes. One of the sections. Because we had a lot to do with Shell Mex in London, I forget the other London address. It's 50 years ago isn't it. That's the trouble. (Laughter)
You said that when you were using the teleprinter you knew the codes.
Oh yes you had to learn the whole codes for the whole of England.
Really.
Yes, for instance Ruddington was RDN, and you went through a switchboard like a telephone and we went through London which was LN.
And you used text messages you said a bit like we use today.
We did when we were talking to another operator.
Yes.
Yes by typing of course and we managed to get up quite a relationship with these people and often when we were talking to the London girls, all of a sudden the machine would go quiet. You'd say what's happened to old so and so. Then a bit later on the machine would start to click again you went flying to it to see what was happening. Sorry about that, love, had to go in the air raid shelter. So we always heard about the raids in London before the radio. (Irrelevances)
Did you have communications with lots of areas in Britain?
Yes, the whole of England, Scotland and Wales.
How many ordnance factories were there all over the country?
Can't remember.
Did you ever have any emergencies when you were at Ruddington?
Not that I can remember, not from the bomb making not at all.
Any fire alarms?
No, weren’t we lucky.
Nothing like that at all?
I think we must have had fire drill. We must have had fire drills and this would mean us going out in the fresh air and sunshine, so we used to enjoy that.
So everything was enclosed?
Yes, under artificial light all the time.
Did you find that stressful?
Yes that's why I wear glasses now. But like everything else you just had to get used to it and you didn't question it.
It was something you had applied for this particular job when you got it. Were there people who had been drafted in at all you came across?
I don't know how the others managed to get in to that at all. They never seemed to be raised. Oh now, I can say that two people had been working at the Nottingham Gun Factory and they were sent into there. One lady in particular, Lily Martin, she was a mine o£ information about procedure and they always went to Lily, always asked for Lily 'we'll go to Lily' she will always be able to help us, which was good.
Did you have to check in deliveries or stores or so on?
We didn't do any checking, anything that we typed had to be checked by another clerk in the office, everything. If you had made a mistake, this lady was the wife of one of the inspectors, never done office work ever before, and she would come up to your desk, she would get hold of the paper and she would say 'You have made a mistake Miss.. you would cringe in fear please say it nicely to me and I'll do it. Typing all day long naturally we made mistakes, you couldn't help it.
You would have to do the whole thing again?
Or rub it out – with the bits of paper at the back. No correcting in those days. You just did it the hard way.
Did you find the teleprinting monotonous?
No, never ever, because you were able to get such a high speed and you were just clicking away. It was lovely. I never ever tired of ding it.
Did the typing get a bit tedious did it?
Sometimes. The work had to be divided between three of us in the morning. Sometimes you would end up with about 60 forms which had to be typed all about the specifications, (irrelevances) everything had to be done to a specification. Say something had come in from Metal Box all the specifications had to be typed on to this certain form to go into the inspection department then they would read it and do it accordingly.
I see and did you socialise with other people on the Depot?
Oh yes, not other people on the Depot, in our section.
How many was that?
I think there were about eighty odd people altogether, so that was made up of the stores, inspection and the office.
Did you have Christmas parties and things?
No we didn't have parties because there wasn't the food, no.(Irrelevances) We used to save a shilling a week, this was the office staff, and we would go to the Micardo in Nottingham (Laughter) and book a meal and how lovely there was the orchestra playing as we went in and it was all booked and our table was ready. And then we used to go on the town because a group of about 10 people could go into the Trip to Jerusalem and places like that or we would go to the Empire as well.
Were you a mixed group?
No, all girls. Then I couldn't get home to Ruddington because of the transport so I used to walk to Sherwood with my best friend Olive (she has since died) I would walk with her to Sherwood and stay the night with her.
How much time did you have off, did you work Saturdays?
We worked 6 days a week sometimes 7 days - we would have an occasional Saturday off and occasional Sunday off.
Did you listen to Workers Playtime by any chance?
No. They started a scheme - this was really funny - where we would get music through the building and one Sunday they couldn't get it right and the same record was played all day and I can tell you that record was 'I don't want to set the world on fire'.
Not very appropriate.
We kept saying not again not again.
Were there any romances on the Depot that you were aware of?
Illicit ones?
Yes.
Yes one or two. Mostly family people which was nice. We really stuck to each other in our little office group, we cared for each other and helped each other. It was nice.
Did you carry on your friendship after you left the Depot? For many years?
Yes. I am still friends with one friend who still lives in Ruddington. Another very close friend died 9 years ago. I've just remembered, this Lily and my friend Olive - my mother used to do potatoes for them every day – the canteen didn't have any hot meals and Olive was coming all the way from Sherwood and it was quite a trial to get there for 8 o'clock in the morning so mother used to do these potatoes, wrap them up in newspaper and I used to carry them in my jacket from home and as I walked into the office - I think it was 12 till 1 we had dinner and I used to say 'Would you like a potato girls' and Lily and Olive would say 'Oh yes please' . That was kept up for quite a time.
Did it get warm in the summer or was it not?
We were able to have some big doors open in the summer and I can remember seeing the D- Day planes go over. There was such a noise, and looked out, it was a beautiful day, I can always remember the sunshine, and we all kept remarking "an awful lot of planes today" and of course it came out that it was D-Day.
When did you stop working there?
1947, it would be in the spring. Why it was so memorable, three of us saved up to go to Switzerland and while we were saving up we moved into the admin block, and that was definitely 1947. We had such a bad snowy winter there was a block of snow, the house just outside the Depot on Loughborough Road going towards Bunny there was a drift there as big as a double decker bus. I went to have a look at it and people were pulling my leg and I've got a poem somewhere that the fire patrol officer's daughter wrote about us going to Switzerland saying why bother when we had so much snow in Ruddington. (Laughter) But even if the weather was bad and you couldn't bike you just trudged off and went there you never ever said I'm not going. You always went.
And so you stopped working there in '47.
Yes. I was in the admin. We'd just changed over one day you were at the Ministry in 8D 25, the next day you were in the Ministry in the admin block.
I see. So you were on the same site.
Yes.
But just working for a different name.
No still Ministry of Supply. Yes, yes. You see we were old hands because we had several years service and they were meeting people that had worked for the Co-op and it caused a little bit of, they thought they were more or less in charge of us, and we very carefully told them that we were sort of, we had this service.
Where did the, I don't really understand where the Co-op came into this.
The Co-op were given this Depot to operate.
Oh I see.
And I think it was because in the past there was a lot of insurance money. I don't know the full story of it and I don't think anyone else does, but it was always said that the Co-op had loaned so much money to the government through insurance that they gave them this Depot to operate. And it was a standing joke that they gave 'divi' on the bombs, that was a standing joke. (Laughter)
Did you finally leave the Depot then in 19..?
1951.
Yes
Yes
You were finished then.
I'd gone to live at Loughborough. I'd married and gone to live at Loughborough. I married in '49.
Ah yes.
And I was, there were 3 established people on our section and I was one of them on our section and I was one of them through this time. When you married you had to give it up.
Yes
Or carry on forever more until you were establishment. By this time I was secretary Ruddington and I didn't want to come out of in there. I liked all the activity in there.
Yes it’s much more fun when you're with a group of people.
Well not a group of people only 2 others of us.
Quite an experience working somewhere like that. Being part war effort.
Oh yes. I wouldn't have altered it. I've been very lucky in my life, Margaret, I've enjoyed my whole life.
Yes.
As regards work.
That's very good. You've had job satisfaction.
Definitely. It’s up to you. I've gone to night school and I've always tried to learn a bit more to get on a bit further and its paid off.
Just one other thing. Any characters, people that you recall, a character that you can remember working there?
Yes, yes definitely. Now this was when we moved down to the admin. We had a fire patrol officer by the name of Mr Pearce. Yes. Very achetype army man, little clipped moustache and he used to walk into the office with a report like someone had stolen something. But the trouble was he could say it but he couldn't put it on paper. And it was a really hard job to get the right information from him to put on paper. You used to have to compose all the facts for him. But he would start telling about someone stealing some material then he'd forget something and go on to something happening to a fire engine. So you'd have to bring him back again. So you know I used to say afterwards, Oh dear that was hard work. But he always used to open the door and say, "It can't be late, it's light." (Laughter) And then we had 2 people, one-armed people, working in the reception.
Oh
One was a Mr Neville and he'd held his own decorating business
before he came onto the Depot with one arm and the other one he'd been in
the forces and lost his arm. Two very independent people, very smart, very
hard working, both of them. And they were a pleasure to have about the place.
They were lovely. And then at this time the Superintendent was a Mr Gerdes
and I think he thought he was a country squire because he eventually got himself
an alsatian dog and he used to go horse riding. And unfortunately his secretary
was very wide eyed over him and I think that she started to worship the ground
that he walked on. But the trouble with Mr Gerdes he wasn't fully
qualified and there came a ruling into the Ministry's that all Superintendents
must pass a certain exam. And dear Mr Gerdes failed.
Oh dear.
And so he went off to Loughborough and took the Three Nuns pub at Church Langton. And eventually his secretary followed him.
Oh.
And this is how I became to be in the ex-superintendent's office which I didn't want to be. But there we are. (Laughter) But there’s your story there.
So then you had other.
Yes. We had Mr Barker come. He was the Superintendent to the
Depot. We had an assistant Superintendent by the name of Mr Bentley. Nowadays
you would say little and large because Mr Barker was small, broad and Mr Bentley/Gerdes
was long and lanky. And Mr Bentley always used to wear a bow tie. And it was
a standing joke with the fire patrolman. We used to say "Bentley's got
his bow twisted again" I said "Yes he thinks he's on an aeroplane
with the blades the wrong way round". (Laughter) And it used to be like
this way but they were all right. But then a lot of the administration was
done by the chief clerk and his name was Cyril Hampton. He was the backing
for the job and he would bring in to the typing pool as many as 30 or 40 letters
for us to type that morning and you were still working for other people as
well.
And there we did list all the wages for everybody on the Depot, two of us
every Thursday morning. I knew what everybody was receiving.
In '47 or earlier on?
'47. There were big sheets like newspapers and you were typing them all day on Thursday. I knew everyone's rate of pay.
How many would that be, how many people would be involved?
Oh I wouldn't like to say now.
Hundreds?
Yes, yes if you say l00's you are safe.
What happened to these sheets, were they sent off to?
I don't know because we were working for the wages department you see, and all money was counted by hand. There again, now think of it today with all the break ins and people being robbed. A car used to go from the front office probably at 10 o'clock something like that, 2 wage clerks, one fire patrolman, an alsatian dog and the driver. We used to go on the stroke and I used to remark then you know type the cheque sometimes for this amount. Perhaps I didn't ought to say how much and then it was brought in in cash and then there would be 2 or 3 clerks anyone could rob them. Because I used to counting it out. And say if 84/- that first man would get 84/- and then it would be passed on and another clerk would check it before it went into the envelope. There was always that routine.
And so you were paying cash.
Yes, everyone paid cash.
And paid weekly?
Yes
And there weren't any sort of robbery?
No, no, No-one stole anything in those days. They were stealing, when it was turned over to the Defence and they started to have the sales of cars and all that pyrex ware and everything else, the stealing started then and it was known on one police thing that I typed that the culprit had wrapped this material around his body and got out.
This was in the late '40's.
Oh it would be between '47 and '51 that would be happening.
You said earlier there was nothing metal during the war years. What was made of pyrex?
That was used in bomb filling. You see pyrex was safe and I'm sure there were some pottery items as well but nothing with metals.
I see.
Rubber, lots of rubber, hard rubber, rubber mallets, rubber everything, everything had a rubber handle.
I see.
What they used for screwdrivers and anything like that I cannot remember what it would be.
Could have been something like glass or pyrex?
Mustn't have been anything that made a spark because of the cordite.
I see.
And has anyone mentioned anything about the cordite burning that used to take place?
Not that I know about. Tell us.
Before I left they started to burn the cordite, this quite open there would be this big yellowie glow on the Depot, we'd sort of look over see the glow of it and it was the cordite being burnt I would imagine to get rid of all the waste. But I cannot go into it any further than that.
You yourself didn't have anything to do with it.
Oh no nothing like that.
You really didn't meet any of the people who did that sort of thing?
No, no. It was a silent place to work. There would be all these people in the bomb filling place over the wire fence as it were but you never anyone. You see they would be doing the shift into that section as were doing something the other side. It was an eerie place to work.
They all worked shifts of course.
Yes they did.
You didn't talk about what you were doing when you left the site?
Oh no, we just weren't interested. We did have dances towards the end in the canteens down off The Green and one of the fire patrolmen used to did those, a chap from Gotham, what was his name - Bert Pygall - he put dances on, came from the fire brigade section. We used to have some good dances down there.
Do you feel that it obviously made a difference to Ruddington having the Depot.
Well it brought employment in. At first a lot of Irish people were brought in and we were short of labour.
I see.
And so Irish people used to move around especially on buildings. My father worked on it and my sister worked on it you know through the time. No end of people did but the Irish people they had the contractors had little huts representing their firms and it was well known that the Irish used to, they couldn't make their money last so they used to go on tick and poor man - my father told me this story - had a note put in his little pay packet he owed the firm 7 pence, he'd subbed everything. (Laughter). But they gradually drifted away. One or two stopped in the village.
Did they have lodgings in the village?
Yes they did. They brought in fire patrolmen as well at first and they lodged in the village.
I just wondered if any of them remained in Ruddington but obviously not very many?
Only odd ones. Then again, this was when I was back in the admin were short of labour and the two wages clerks went up to Sunderland and recruited a lot of people. Now I was doing at this time I used to do everyone's details whether they were leaving, coming in and we had all these names from the Sunderland area, the names were so peculiar and they eventually drifted back again, they didn't settle.
They were just contracted in and then contracted?
No, they were enlisted from the Sunderland area. There were a lot of unemployed people at this time in that section and they brought them down and they had an hostel to offer rooms for them.
The hostel, where was that?
That was down on Elms Park where Leys Court is.
So that was the hostel.
Yes and Doreen Squires was one of them down there. There were bungalows but there was also a hostel.
I see and there were obviously staff looking after them.
Yes lots, little rooms.
Do you know how many they could accommodate?
I don't know but I could probably find out because Olive on there, her husband lived in there before he married alive and I'm still in touch with him at the Isle of Wight.
So not only were people sort of brought in daily and they.
Oh yes, they lived there. You see this is why we could enlist these people to come down we had accommodation for them and that accommodation was also used in 1947 for accommodation for flood people from Wilford.
Oh yes of course there was lot of bad flooding in '47.
An army went from the Depot because we had all those for sale and it went down and I spoke to the driver afterwards and he said on Wilford Lane he could not understand, he thought he could catch the hedges but he didn't he just floated over the top it was so deep and we had expected ...elderly people and live in a hostel.
I see. So when did the Depot cease to be a manufacturing Depot was that immediately the war was over.
It would be on the Ministry of Supply in the section I was but I can't tell about the bomb filling, when that actually terminated. You see going down into the admin block we were then thrown into more or less the defence side of it, we were selling all these motor cars and armoured vehicles and everything else and they had these auctions.
Yes, I remember the auctions, that was in the 60's. So the auctions started before the 1950's?
They were on before I left and I left in 1951.
They must have started about 1950ish.
I think so.
They were there for a long time. Oh well there was certainly a lot happened in Ruddington that we don't remember. I didn't realise there was a hostel for the workers.
Oh yes and one of my jobs in the admin was to send letters to all the tenants in the avenue on Loughborough Road and the people down in the hostels if they had phone calls and rents and things. We had to collect in all this money. Send the little bills. (Irrelevances)
Was there a medical officer on site?
Oh yes, we had our own surgery and there again we had a very strong character, Sister Skinner.
Oh, I know Violet Skinner, everyone in Ruddington knows her.
I used to call her 'the battleaxe' to her face. And she had a lovely medical section, beautiful great big place and I received treatment once or twice in there. I'd got a bad back and she said I want you over in that surgery, I went and she laid me on the bed, gave me this heat treatment and it she was very good. And we had a doctor from East Leake (irrelevances) he lived in Station Road, and I used to send his cheque and it was money for old rope. And towards the end of my time there we all had to have a medical in the offices and once again I was recalled I was used to this it did not bother me and of course I had married in '49, this was 1950 and Sister Skinner said "I want to talk to you Eileen". And I thought, Oh my goodness. She told me very quietly that I ought to see if I was intending having a family I should seek medical help sort of thing all through this illness. So I went and had a word with Doctor Harvey and apparently Doctor Harvey and she didn't deal very well (Laughter) and so it all came out.
So you didn't have to have a medical before you started?
Yes I did and I had it at the Nottingham Gun Factory. It was a police surgeon who gave me mine and he told me the same news again that I had this heart complaint and I never told him anything, I thought no, you're the doctor, you find it.
So everybody had medicals before they started?
I'm sure so, whether the works side did but we definitely did.
And you say there was a medical during your time there or when you came to leave.
It was, it was well before I left, it was between 1949 and 1951 I had this medical, but everyone had to have it in the offices.
You didn't have yearly check ups?
Oh no. You didn't have much time off work at all.
You weren't expected to have time off?
No, we didn't want to. It was as easy as that.
Was that because if you had time off you lost money anyway? Was there sick pay?
No, no. I would get with being administration I would get something. I was in the union.
Oh you were in the union.
Yes, CSCA civil service, yes CSCA. Civil Service Clerical Association. Good grief, I havn’t thought anything about that. We had meetings in admin. Can't remember much that we talked about but we did have meetings.
Did you have a shop steward?
I can't remember that. We must have done. I know I took part in something for this CSCA .
You didn't have any strikes or demonstrations?
No. (Laughter). Oh and another thing, the telephone exchange that was nearly underground. Here was the admin block which came along the road, they looked like air-raid shelters and they probably had been air-raid shelters and I only went in there about three times in my whole time and you did go down and there was one male operator and two girls in there, one was named Mary, I can't remember the other one's name. Mr Lee I think his name was, the male operator.
Your sort of telex type machines they weren't with the telephone people, they were in your office, your text machines?
Oh yes. Always had them in the office. They were connected with the telephone you know the GPO because we had a senior mechanic come out to check on them all the time, they had got to be absolutely spot on all the time.
And so the things that people came and maintained the equipment?
Yes they did and through this maintenance we were offered
a job in the
Post Office in Queen Street. Olive and I went and had an interview, so simple
and I came out and I said to Olive "I’m not taking that job ".
Olive said "No neither am I". You know why? You had to have a supervisor
marching up and down at the back of us and we said we've worked all this time
without supervision and we can do the job and we don't need it. And it was
going to be shift work as well... and I'm glad we did.
So Ruddington had one or two satellite Depots?
They were called sub-Depots. I think there were six. There was Thorpe Sachville, Ashby, Coalville, Kings Newton, have I said Thurmaston? I can always remember Thurmaston. I can't remember much, I knew they used to send work in and we used to send work out but I can't, I think they were little storage Depots.
When were they closed down then?
I don't know when they were actually closed down, you see there again with me leaving '51 I think they were gradually closed down.
Some of them were still going in the 60's?
Yes.
So you had a day trip?
Mr Barker and Mr Bentley decided that we did all this work
for these Depots and a lot they hardly existed so we were allowed a day out
with transport from the Depot and we went in cars. You imagine it, you were
lucky to get on a bus at this time so to go by private car was a bonus and
we set off and we stopped at Rempstone for half an hour for liquid refreshment.
I was no drinker so it didn't bother me. And we went to these different Depots
and we did stop at Ashby Foville. That was an old manor house the headquarters
and the Americans had been there during the war and I can always remember
some paintings on the walls that the Americans had done. At this time there
was a Polish group there. What they were actually doing I don't know. We just
got the impression there was stores all the time. And so we had a very pleasant
day and from then onwards those names were places and we knew who.
worked in them and it was good.
Joe Horspool's had the bakery in Ruddington. You say he did some?
Yes. He rented a building at one time to do baking and it was lovely you could go over there and buy a loaf. That was very nice. And the smell of bread.,
Lovely.
So we had the surgery on one side of the road and the bake house on the other at the side of the telephone exchange.
Sounds ideal?
Oh it was.
Thank you very you much Mrs Selby, for a very interesting
morning. Thank you very much.
Interviews > Interview with Eileen Selby