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The 'Bombs to Butterflies' Interviews
Interviewees: Mrs Roselynd Wilson
Interviewers: Julie Wright
Date of Interview:
The questions are about the Army Depot, so the first question is, when did you go to live on the Depot Site?
I went in 1948 and I left in 1964 but my Mum didn’t leave until 1968 when they pulled all the houses down.
So, what’s that in total?
Well, about 20 years in all. And I still went back to see my Mum every week. I only lived on Loughborough Road even then.
How many houses were there?
There were seventeen bungalows and twelve flats.
What was the rent?
When my Mum first moved in I think it was 3 shillings a week and 17 shillings and sixpence when they left.
(Laughter) what would that be in today’s money?
Well 10 shillings would be 50 pence today, but I can’t think in old money.
Well, I’m just being awkward asking, but I am just interested in the old money.
Well, as I say, 50 pence was 10 shillings, so 5 shillings would be 25 pence and half a crown would be 12.5 new pence, so 17/6d would be about 88 pence.
God, it sounds so little now. (Laughter)
Yes, we went back quite quickly didn’t we?
My Dad tries to explain it to me. He does metal detecting and finds these old coins and he’s always trying to explain their value to me, but maths was never my strong point. The other thing is, where were the houses? I have a map with me.
That’s even better. Let’s see, we didn’t
go through the Depot Gates but up the side. That’s Long Farm Lane and
these are fields – confused muttering over the map.
Yes, we came from the village and round the Depot and we were sort of round
here, but we followed Long Farm Lane which led down to the Farm.
Is that Farm still there?
Yes, the farm’s still there.
I wonder if that’s where I go bird watching. There are some Little Owls that sit out in the evening. I wonder if that is the same farm.
Yes, if you come from Loughborough Road, it’s the first farm you come to. It’s a great big new house now but it was an old farmhouse then. (More poring over the map). I worked all over there; when I first went there I used to work in the buildings where we used to empty ammunition boxes.
There are no labels to say what is what on the map.
No only C Avenue and Asher Lane, and the allotment on the corner of Musters Road. The railway used to cross Asher Lane there, look, what we called Ministry of Works. Where the traffic island is on Loughborough Road, that would be the main entrance to the depot, the security office, and that was the big car park, I think.
That is Elms Park?
Yes, that’s right and that’s Kirk Lane and Easthorpe Street. (Irrelevant chat and laughter) There’s Front Avenue and Back Avenue. I know we had to walk a mile and a half to school. There were not many buses. When I first came as a 3 year old they were just building Elms Park, there was only Ashworth Avenue that way and no council houses, no Barleylands or Churchill Drive and there was just the village.
My family owned the Butcher’s Shop down there you know. All my aunts and uncles were always saying how small the village was and now it keeps expanding.
So, what’s your father’s name?
Geoff Wright. He lives at the back of the butcher’s, he doesn’t work there.
Yes, it’s Dennis in the butcher’s isn’t it? And Olwyn’s a Wright isn’t she.
Yes, I’ve aunts and uncles all over the place.
(More conversation about local relatives and friends.)
Did you say you did live on the depot?
Yes, I lived in two places. My daughter was born in that one and when she was a fortnight old we moved to that one because my Dad got promoted and they wouldn’t move the telephone so we had to move house. (Laughter).
Which were houses, bungalows or flats?
Those were bungalows and those were classed as flats.
You’ve done this map very well. It must have taken some time.
Yes and I’m not very good at drawing. Number 1-17 were bungalows and 1-12 were flats.
What were they made of?
Brick. That’s why I rang up because it said in the “Rudd” they were pre-fabs but we did not live in pre-fabs.
When they had a meeting Margaret Lawson was saying that the houses were disliked if they were pre-fabs. What was that about?
They came in pre-fabricated blocks. The front came and the back came separately and I think they were supposed to have life of about 10 years, because there were quite a lot in Bridgford after the war.
I think in Chilwell there are pre-fabs and they look like garden sheds.
Yes. They came on the back of Lorries.
So they lasted a long time even though they didn’t like them. What were the windows like? Were they casement or sash?
The windows were massive and were metal and in the bungalows they were opening outwards. The rooms were massive as well; we had a dining suite and a 3 piece suite in our kitchen. (Laughter). In fact the pantry was like another room.
I bet you were sorry to leave them?
Oh we were.
Did they have gardens?
Some of them were 60ft long. Before we lived on a corner we
had a hedge on two sides and there was a lot to cut. The gardens for the flats
had a lot of bricks and rubble so they just used to grass them, and use the
area for putting up the washing line.
In the gardens between the flats were flower gardens with lawns.
Was there an outside main security fence, and did you have your own entrance?
Yes, we did.
Where was the bottom security gate?
You know where you go into Barleylands and a little way round where people park cars, that was the Bottom gate, where the hillock is.
You are looking at the railway again. Was it working then?
Yes, wagons came every day from East Leake sidings for us to fill.
I wasn’t sure how long ago the railway stopped working.
Where the line goes to Asher Lane, that’s the old line
through the depot, but there were other lines running through the depot connecting
different buildings. When I worked on the switchboard I used to ring East
Leake to tell them how many wagons to bring next day. I can’t make out
where the railway went from this map.
I can only recognise the railway sheds which are still there (and used by
the Heritage Centre).
(10 minutes irrelevant discussion of the details of the map).
A lot of equipment was stolen at various times and some of it was found buried
in Sherwood Forest. They blamed the IRA but there is no proof at present.
Were the houses popular or did tenants complain about them? Was there any damp?
There was nothing to complain about. There was some damp, possibly, but you just coped with it. It was set out so nicely up there that nobody bothered.
When you described the rooms, they sounded huge.
They were massive, and even the bedrooms had bay windows in the bungalows.
They were probably better than what you would get now?
Yes, they were.
Was there a waiting list for them?
Well, not really a waiting list, but if anybody left or anyone died, a notice would go up on the notice board and there was always somebody waiting to move in.
So, people saw the notice in the village.
No, only in the Depot itself or through anyone who worked there.
How were tenants chosen? Were certain houses reserved for key workers?
No, it was for anyone who worked on the depot.
Were there key people who had to be available 24 hours per day?
Yes, the accommodation was reserved for key workers, my Dad had to be available 24 hours per day because he was Security Chief, and people like plumbers / repairers who might be required at short notice.
When were the houses demolished?
I think 1968-69 when they pulled them down. We’d already left then of course.
The dates you worked on the depot were 19?? To 1968? (Details not clear here). What did your job involve?
When I first went up there I worked in the buildings opening the ammunition boxes.
So did you take ammunition out of them?
No, there wasn’t supposed to be any ammunition in them.
So you were just checking them?
Yes. Then in late 1975 I went into the main office as typist/switchboard operator.
So you changed around quite a bit over the years. What hours did you work? Did you work shifts?
On the depot they worked set hours from 8-15am – 4-45pm. In the offices we worked between 7-30am and 6-00pm because we worked flexitime (8 hours in total).
Did you sign the Official Secrets Act?
Yes.
Did you have a pass to get into work?
Yes, a personal pass and a car pass. Every so often they also had spot checks. Because everyone knew everyone else, if you had forgotten your pass, they usually let you in, but they had the authority to say, “I’m sorry, you’ll have to go back for your pass”.
Perhaps some of the guards might not have known everyone?
They did really because almost everyone lived in the village and worked on the depot,
Did you wear a uniform?
No, only the security men wore uniforms.
So the spot checks were to ask you to take your pass out and show it.
About once a month the gates would be shut and they would demand to see your pass. As my Dad was Chief of Security I had to make sure I always had mine. (Chuckles)
How many security gates did you say – two was it? Were they guarded at all times?
Yes they were.
Were the guards ever armed? Was there a guard house or cells?
No, they weren’t armed and there were no cells. If anybody was arrested they would call in the proper police.
I wonder how they worked out the importance of each depot?
We were only classed as a Storage Depot whereas Chilwell was an Army Depot. We never had any Army personnel staying at Ruddington.
So was Chilwell called that because they were involved in arms production?
That was more of a repair place for the tanks etc. There was also an Army Barracks there.
Was the depot patrolled on foot or in a vehicle?
Daytime on foot and night-time in a vehicle.
How much were you paid?
I started at £27.00 per week and finished on about £84.00 per week
That sounds quite a lot?
Yes it was quite good. They were good jobs.
How many were there on the security staff?
There would be about 30.
I was expecting it to be more than that, visualising the films with barbed wire and guns.
No, it was not quite like that.
I see the Social Club is marked on the map. What went on there?
Well, it was the first place to have a television set. When I was small, some Mums used to take us in every day to watch the children’s programmes.
So, just one of the mothers would take a whole gang up there.
Yes with having no shops up there it was the social focus of The Avenue really. We used to take our homework in there, play table tennis and we took a record player in the back room and played our records. It was a gramophone and you could load 10 records on and they dropped down one by one. There were no separate speakers. The speaker was in the lid.
It sounds quite fun. Did the adults hold dances?
Yes, they had a dance every Saturday night.
Was it all slow dancing or did they get livelier?
Yes, they did ballroom dancing and we used to go in there and jive and things like that.
Did they separate the dances – some for adults and some for kids and teenagers?
No they used to mix it up and we all enjoyed it.
Was there a membership fee? Did everyone pay or just adults?
Yes, it was a £1.00 per year. You couldn’t join
until you were 18, because of the alcohol licence.
If you were younger you went in with your parents because they couldn’t
leave you at home.
I suppose you wouldn’t get much under age drinking then?
No, not at all.
Was there a committee? Were they volunteers or were they elected?
Oh, there was a proper election every year at the annual general meeting.
What did they discuss at the G.M.?
Well, there was the Treasurer’s Report to say how much money there was. If anyone said they did not want to be on the committee due to advancing age etc, they would thank them and see if anyone wished to replace them.
were there any paid staff?
No, the committee did the work, each working one night each.
That must have involved quite a lot of work?
Yes, that’s how we all learnt to work behind bars. (Laughter)
To go back to the Depot – how many people in total worked there?
I cannot remember – I couldn’t even guess.
When did your father and/or mother work on the depot?
My father worked there from 1945 to 1975 when he died. My mother went there in the early 1960’sand left in 1977.
Your mother worked in the canteen, doing what job in particular?
She was a cook.
Your father was Security Chief so he must have been busy?
Yes, that’s right.
Do you remember them talking about their work at all? Did they enjoy it?
Oh, it was great fun; it was a good place to work, partly
because everyone knew everyone else.
There were so many families working there.
Did they wear uniforms or special protective clothing?
Yes, my dad did and in the buildings they wore like army overalls.
They didn’t change out of them at breaks did they?
No, there was nothing harmful on them.
So, you didn’t deal with army equipment?
No, only when it was the auction sales, mostly ex-army cars and other vehicles. We did not sell tanks or anything like that. We did have tanks up there for refurbishment in the R.E.M.E. workshops.
Did they do other army vehicles?
No.
Do you recall any emergencies at the depot, such as bombings?
No, we didn’t have anything like that. We had our own fire engine as well.
You don’t remember a fire even?
No, I can’t think of one except the odd grass fire in the hot weather.
With the buildings being concrete, perhaps it wouldn’t have been too serious anyway?
No, probably not. Most of the ammo boxes we stored were metal
anyway.
There was very little flammable stuff.
Do you remember any funny incidents that happened; I believe you had one or two retarded people working there?
Yes, at time the government had a policy where everyone had to employ what they called “green card” people, so obviously they had to follow their own policy. But they were no problem – they could all work.
Did you have any deaf people, and how could they communicate?
There was only one, whom we called “Deafie” to
his face. He didn’t seem to mind at all.
He could talk. You had to listen carefully, and he could lip read.
What about retarded people.
No, there weren’t really any retarded people. They were slow but not retarded, perhaps 6 of them.
Were they well treated by everyone? What about bullying?
Yes, everyone treated them well – and there was no bullying – they wouldn’t have dared. Anyone doing that would have been landed on like a ton of bricks. Anyone could take the mickey out of anyone, not matter who they were.
Did you have a few supervisors who put the fear of God into people?
No, we all worked together. The supervisors worked as hard as anyone.
So the atmosphere was friendly?
Yes, very friendly.
Do you remember any particular colleague or characters who stood out from the rest?
No there was nobody in particular who stood out. There were
different people for different jobs.
Only one I can think of. There was a bloke who lived on Asher Lane and he
always went in through the bottom gate on Barleylands and he used to be late
every morning.
Did he have a nickname then?
No. Everybody knew he was always late, only by about 5 minutes. It was never by an hour or anything but he was one who lived nearest the depot. That’s what they laughed about.
Have you any photographs or souvenirs?
No, because we weren’t allowed to take photographs.
I understand from Margaret that they actually got a few photos from inside the Social Club.
I wonder where they came from. I hope I’m not on them!
I believe they are going to put up a display if they can get enough, but it you weren’t supposed to take them so there won’t be many.
If any was being extremely silly, I bet it was my mother and her mate.
Did they go a bit mad then?
Yes, they were the ones who entertained us. My mum just likes a laugh. She and her friend were always the first up to dance and so on. She still lives on Moor Lane; she was 85 the other week.
Is there anything else you would like to tell me about this
period in your working life?
Were you working with a group when you worked on the switchboard?
No, I worked alone. I was GPO trained on a plug-board and
a fortnight after I joined they pulled out the board and put another one in!
Even on there we had 3 outside lines and when they rang, you had to say the
phone number. There were two more lines from the depot and you had to say,
“Ruddington Military”. There were also 20 inside lines and you
had to say “Switchboard” when they rang and if the board was busy
you could get in an awful mess! (Laughter). We were not a military base but
if a call came from a military depot we had to say, “Ruddington Military”
because it concerned everything military.
In theory no-one was supposed to know the outside lines because they were
never in the phone book, so that’s why we said “Good Morning Nottingham
9876 or whatever. It was hectic at times.
What type of work was included there?
Well the Stores side was concerned with the auctions of lorries, cars and vans. If you worked in the buildings you were emptying ammunition boxes, and then there were Admin, the Canteen and Security.
Interviews > Interview with Roslyn Wilson